My ex is trans

[Chamomiletea]

Just as the tile says. She (formerly he) is the kindest most thoughtful person I had ever met and looking back was clearly very uncomfortable with any touching of his/her penis.

The thought of her being threatening to anyone is beyond me.

Is the trans debate I am just learning about on here only in the internet world/UK? She is the only trans I know and I just feel genuinely saddened that she was so depressed for so long.

owllady lots of us have traumatic experiences. Generally what's needed is lots of therapy. Is 'changing sex' the answer? Having your genitals mutilated, possibly losing the ability to feel sexual pleasure and have sex without a great deal of physical discomfort, finding out that lesbian s just don't fancy you and neither do straight women? How does any of this make the individual feel better?In fact, I've never met a happy, contented trans person. The main beneficiaries seem to be pharmaceutical companies and surgeons.

I'm sure transpeople have an awful time of it. It must be shit. You don't fit in, people look at you suspiciously, you may have to have complex surgery, a lifetime of medical treatment and a lot of the time you hate yourself. There's an 87% chance that you have comorbid mental health issues, the highest of which is narcissism. Your sense of self is fragile and an episode of misgendering can devastate you. If you have AGP porngraphy will play a massive part in your life and you will be filled with guilt and shame in equal measure. And gender dysphoria is bloody awful.

All of this needs highly specialised treatment.

What it doesn't need is extra civil rights! Nor should the treatment be a wholesale demand that everyone else on the planet colludes in it and redefines the meaning of language for what is an infinitesimally small number of people.

Scary, I will read up and stop being ignorant to this subject

I was abused as a child/young adult and have had further traumas in my life. I wouldn't have posted what I did 'lightly' user
I don't think in my friends case it has anything to do with sex. I think it's about escapism tbh, but very complex.

I know you all have strong feelings relating to this and I'm not belittling it at all. I feel the same in respect to lots of associated issues to with this tbh.

Owllady I linked to this Australian newspaper's arrticle regarding a psychiatrist saying that few of his would-be-trans teenaged patients are actually gender dysphoric, and gave as an example:

^"Psychiatrist Dr Stephen Stathis, who runs a gender clinic, said he had seen girls who had been sexually abused and wanted to identify as transgender. Psychiatrist Dr Stephen Stathis. Picture: Jamie Hanson
“The girls say, ‘If only I had been a male I wouldn’t have been abused’,’’ Dr Stathis said." And you say of your friend I completely understand why he would want to forget his old life and become someone new."^ Which doesn't seem to me to be that far from those abused girls.

I hope your friend finds peace and security by living as a woman. But I do worry that if someone like your friend does't find this is their answer, where does it leave them? I worry it could leave them feeling worse about themselves . I hope it is his answer, and having good friends like yourself around can only help him. Best wishes.

Hi sorry this is not my husband! She was my ex when we were 16 - so I don't blame her for not telling me she felt that way, it must have been a terrible time.

She dresses mainly in overalls and due to her very petitie frame has always been able to pass as female.

Thank you all for enlightening me - I still am struggling to balance the shame/pain she must have gone through (her family wouldn't have been kind) and the absue she must have received with the idea that she is a threat to me as a woman.

If you don't mind I don't want to say where I am.

I would love to talk about this with her, are thee any questions I should ask do you think? As I mentioned she is very kind, well educated and non aggressive. Spends most of her time helping those in need have access to food.

Tbh whereyouleftit I agree with you and the research. It's very difficult to actually do anything constructive as an outsider if that is someone's path later in life (in their 40s)

My post most probably wasn't constructive either as its not my story to tell but I don't believe he will ever be threat to anyone other than to himself. It's a very sad story and I just hope he finds peace too :(

I'm sorry if I've upset anyone as I understand the aggressive trans activist stance too.

I am in no way wanting to insult or call anyone transphobic.

I genuinely want to learn and I thought if I started a thread I would be able to follow along as I got overwhelmed with all the other threads.

I could never be attracted to someone who was trans, I find it abhorrent that parents would offer drugs/surgery to children.

Yet - my only direct experience is with this person who is so far from the trans activists I read about.

Thanks for all the links and for helping navigate my way through this mindfuck.

From what you say your ex personally is no threat to you as a woman at all, and I wish her well in her transition.

If the only transwomen around were a small handful of people like her I don't think transgenderism would be much of an issue. Alas, it is not so...

My ex is currently in a relationship - with the girlfriend she had before she transitioned who paid for her surgery (with her inheritance!)

Thanks for clarifying, chamomile. I apologise again for my post misunderstanding you- I came to this directly from a very goady thread, and over reacted. I don't know why mnhq haven't deleted my post...

Otherwise, what irene said goes for me too.

I do think there is something fundamentally wrong with society that we encourage people who are unhappy with their appearance, to have expensive, dangerous, harmful surgery. And that's aside from the mental damage we are doing by tacitly agreeing with distorted self image. You wouldn't tell an anorexic that they are fat. I wouldn't tell anyone that they are not exactly what they are.

We need to help people accept their bodies exactly as they are and fight restrictive gender stereotyping that makes it seem wrong for boys to cry/be gay/wear what they want and for girls to behave and wear what they want.

This is the problem with the all-encompassing 'trans umbrella'.

Men transition for a variety of different reasons. Women, I believe, on the whole, are either lesbians who feel they should be male as a result of internalised homophobia, or they are young women trying to escape sexual objectification/abuse and think that transitioning will give them protection.

Men who remain attracted to men are largely not the problem. It's the men who remain attracted to women and retain their male genitalia who are the most aggressive and misogynistic. Not always, obviously. Gender dysphoria can afflict anyone, regardless of their sexual orientation.

But the transactivists are the dangerous ones. They are making it difficult for both women and genuine transsexuals. It's all such a bloody mess.

pooch don't apologise - it is absolutely fine!

This is a very broad question but why would someone knowingly go through such horrible surgery to join a part of society that from what I know is marginalised and ridiculed. It seems like an awful lot of effort and must have some very strong convictions behind it.

Is it that those who transition are a "non threat" and those who don't are?

Why about those who cannot afford surgery?

Sorry for the lack of editing

Chamomiletea

I know, it's a rather surreal solution to a problem.

From what I can gather, gender dysphoria can be so severe that the only possible option is complete removal of the male genitalia. People like this will often say they are almost asexual. They certainly would not have wanted to have used their penis in a sexual way.

I don't know whether actually constructing a neo vagina is the only option, or whether there is some other urinary system that is also an option.

People with autogynephilia sometimes also take this extreme route. The compulsion is very strong and becoming the object of your own fantasy can be a yearned for goal (also called female embodiment fantasy. Again, it will often reduce, what I can gather, is an exceptionally strong sex drive.

Overall, it is a minority who opt for surgery in the first place.

When people say they have had gender reassignment surgery, this can often just be top surgery, i.e. breasts or even just facial surgery.

Datun - I am finding your posts on this thread really interesting.

I am quite new to mumsnet and find the viewpoints on this topic interesting to read and consider.

Thankyou for sharing

"why would someone knowingly go through such horrible surgery to join a part of society that from what I know is marginalised and ridiculed."

Why would someone who is stick-thin firmly believe that she is fat, to such an extent that she dies from malnutrition?

Mental health problems can be scary. And (by definition) they make no sense.

Thanks datun that was really helpful.

Why would someone who is stick-thin firmly believe that she is fat, to such an extent that she dies from malnutrition?

Good point CoteDAzur.

Because that question is often asked. Why would someone go to all that trouble?

When you consider the difficulties with transitioning, particularly the surgery, all the trauma involved in coming out to friends, family and work, etc, the motivation must be strong indeed.

It's used as an argument for the 'born in the wrong body' narrative.

Anyone, with an ounce of imagination, would suddenly think, crikey, that would be like living some kind of nightmare.

But when you read more, the premise that the person is actually mentally female, just doesn't ring true.

What does come across, for many (though not all) is a strong self obsession that becomes evident very quickly. Plus an irrationality that is difficult to address.

I think it has a much greater correlation to conditions like anorexia, than anything else. You might as well ask why do the transabled have healthy limbs cut off? It sounds to me like very much the same thing.

And where does the anger come from? There is a lot of (narcissistic?) rage at the merest hint of dissent.

I've just seen this link on another thread. For me, every sentence of it comes across as authentic and illustrative of my experience online with individuals with AGP.

Chamomiletea

I'm wondering if any of it correlates with your experience of your ex. The part where the blogger mentions how nice, kind and supportive some of these individuals can be with women.

culturallyboundgender.wordpress.com/2013/04/27/but-theres-no-such-thing-as-autogynephilia-phone-sex-the-male-gaze-and-how-blanchard-and-trans-activists-both-get-it-wrong/

That's a brilliant article datun

I font think anyone has a problem with people with gender dysphoria getting help, & in some cases that help may involve 'living' as what they perceive is the opposite gender.

But op- have you read the cps document? Put out but GIRES and that goes round schools telling children that if they are uncomfortable with a biological male, even completely untransioned in their space they are commiting a hate crime? And that lesbians should give blow jobs? Google cotton ceiling. Or tara hudsen- male rapist who takes that rapist penis into a women's prision. Look at the resource thread on here- the huge studie that shows pre and post op transwomen commit violent crimes at the same rate all other biological males do. Or google cotton ceiling. Or look at how us women are being told by tra's that we have front holes, we chest feeding babies and get chest cancer, we are 'cis' women not women, we have pomegranit peepee not menstrate, doodle berry's and naughty doudle berry's for ovaries and pcos, and discussing fgm is cissexist and offensive to transpeople. Look at their orwelian use of facts- the sui stats are taken from a study claiming 2000+trans people but the actual study of over that number of people contains less than 30 transpeople. And the murder stats are taken from those in sex worker-and the stats for murder if bio women in sex work much higher. The stats on American murders actual show the least likely to be murdered group, if adjusted for sex work bias, is transwomen. Both men and women are murdered at higher rates than this group. Yet we are gaslighted on a national scale, us/canada/irland all changed their laws to make sex based protections meaningless and the UK is about to jump suit. Which will mean Ian Huntly gets into female prisions-because he claims to be she. And women fleeing abusive husbands have to tolerate men, including said abuser in they're refuge. Rape victoms will have to shut up if their dr examining them is a he claiming to be she, because if not they would be commiting a hate crime, and already the NHS advise is that vulnerable women in psych hospitals (often there because of what men have done to them) will have to accept bio males in they're wards, even if said male has no interest in appearing to pass as female. It's the trendy thing for gnc children to be transed, parents to say my 4 yrold is a girl because he likes pink, followed by medication that damges their life and sterilises anyone slightly different.

Do you understand yet? This is not about your ex, or anyone who struggles with the mh condition gender dysphorIa, this is about the mass erasure of women.

Oh and 2 more things, there are people who believe they should have been born disabled. Who vlblind themselves or cut off limbs. That's a mh condition.

And read miranda Yardley's work. Transwomen herself, although I've no idea what terms she uses but v clearly understands the issues & is on 'our' sude

Chamomiletea "This is a very broad question but why would someone knowingly go through such horrible surgery to join a part of society that from what I know is marginalised and ridiculed. It seems like an awful lot of effort and must have some very strong convictions behind it."
You know that women are treated as second class citizens, but there are people out there who think that women have it easy, they're more privileged than men, blah blah blah. They don't see us as marginalised and ridiculed. They see the door being opened, not the smaller paypacket. Here's an extreme example - mensresistance.wordpress.com/female-privilege-checklist/. It is very extreme, but a watered-down view of women's 'easy life' is pretty common. SO again, no , they don't see us as marginalised and ridiculed .