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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

I was surprised by my reaction to using a gender neutral toilet today

98 replies

RugbyBuoys · 07/04/2017 20:09

I've been contracting this week for a company who work from a relatively small, quiet office building. I was advised that the loos for women were the gender neutral ones. Initially I thought this was a good thing - it felt like the way things should be going.

However, I was surprised how vulnerable I felt using the loos - going in to the cubicles (big gaps under doors and walls) when another person unknown was in the next door cubicle, and also when finding the loos empty, going into a cubicle and then hearing someone else enter the room.

I realised that when you are getting yourself partially undressed in a public loo, it isn't gender of your fellow users that feels relevant, it is biological sex. It was something of a revelation, as I had thought prior to this I would feel fine in a gender neutral set of loos.

I have no significant experience that should make me especially wary of the male sex, but I certainly did feel very uncomfortable and unsafe in that situation.

I now think that people should experience using these sort of toilets (in a non-busy environment where you can't be sure that there will always be people popping in and out) to see how they feel about sitting on the loo and hearing heavy foot steps outside, before they reach a conclusion about converting all loos to gender neutral.

By all means have gender neutral toilets, but women-only loos must not be taken away as part of this is my conclusion.

Interestingly, I noticed that there was another set of loos further on down the corridor - but for men only. No women-only toilets...

OP posts:

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Branleuse · 13/04/2017 16:17

when I use gender neutral toilets, I find it doesnt make me feel vulnerable at all, it just feels like im taking a piss in a public loo.

IAmAmy · 13/04/2017 16:19

I concur Floggingmolly and Datun. The same can be said for a lot of other abhorrent misogynists on various forums. Some of the articles I've read on them are pretty horrifying (or were, now I'm just horrified I'm not horrified by them).

Branleuse that's you. It doesn't render the concerns of those of us who don't feel comfortable void.

user1487175389 · 13/04/2017 16:26

It's clear sexual discrimination if women only get gender neutral toilets but men get their own space. I would write to them and request that they have female and male toilets and then perhaps a disabled/sex neutral toilet.

ISaySteadyOn · 13/04/2017 16:41

I have a rather paranoid thought. Is this an insidious way to get many women out of public spaces while being able to engage in both misogyny and virtue signalling?

Also, if it is going to be men and nonmen, people with penises who wish to use the nonmen loo need to learn how to sit down to wee. I just had the lovely experience of a toilet that was, literally, sprayed with wee everywhere and it was v unpleasant.

Floggingmolly · 13/04/2017 16:44

People with penises who would have us believe they're not men should not be in women's toilets UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
Stay in the men's, or demand a third lot for your special selves.

Datun · 13/04/2017 17:20

Floggingmolly

I don't care if they've got penises or not. Any man should use the men's.

A percentage of men with AGP also have full genital surgery. It's no barrier to maintaining the fetish.

Floggingmolly · 13/04/2017 17:24

Agree.

Spiderpants · 13/04/2017 17:40

I was at a park on Sunday, where the ladies loos were out of action and the ladies had to use the men's!
the amount if men I heard complaining about it was laughable. Imagine that they had to share thier loo

ISaySteadyOn · 13/04/2017 17:46

Of course they shouldn't use women's loos, I agree with PP. I was trying to be funny and failed. Sorry.

IAmAmy · 13/04/2017 17:52

ISaySteadyOn I think the use of "nonmen" showed that and you didn't fail

spankhurst · 13/04/2017 18:25

I was in Imperial College last year for a conference and the loos were unisex; there was much eye-rolling from both sexes. I did feel much more uncomfortable than I normally do using a public loo.

ButtonmushroomEx · 14/04/2017 14:24

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/website-exposes-data-on-how-bathroom-laws-are-leading-to-voyeurism-epidemic

All our fears are coming to the fore....

allegretto · 14/04/2017 14:31

I think a lot depends on the loo. Ours are unisex at work with a partial wall between cubicles. I am paranoid that someone will take a pic over the top! Especially as we share with our students - no staff loos.

Datun · 14/04/2017 15:45

ButtonmushroomEx

A voyeurism epidermic because of gender neutral toilets. Who on earth could have predicted that?

Datun · 14/04/2017 15:47

Reminds me of the studies you see where they say scientists have been studying the effect of eating doughnuts for six months. They can confirm this results in weight gain.

cuirderussie · 14/04/2017 16:09

Button, not sure about a pro-life pro-family website that's currently advertising for a "Vatican Correspondent" even if I agree with them about bathrooms...

Floggingmolly · 14/04/2017 16:12

Seriously, Allegretto, they've made the toilets unisex and haven't even put full fucking walls up??

TinselTwins · 14/04/2017 16:14

I'm okay with the genderless toilets they have in my local costa: each has it's own door, which you can see from the restaurant, there's 4 of them but they're all stand alone but beside each other. If people are waiting they wait outside the doors

I'm not okay with genderless toilets where its a cubicle situation. Where you're essentially trapped in there with whoever has followed you. Men individually are mostly lovely, but when you're the only woman in an enclosed space surrounded by men, it can feel sinister

I'm also not okay with the womens loos being the "obvious" place to become genderless. MENS loos should become genderless, womens loos should stay womens loos.

ButtonmushroomEx · 14/04/2017 18:41

[]https://www.google.ch/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSTRE78K31020110921]]

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 14/04/2017 21:05

The other thing about the Costa loos is that they are cleaned very frequently - I assume it's part of the normal staff role rather than being a separate cleaner who comes in once a day as with many pubs etc. I am not keen on rank toilets smelling of wee but don't have any objection to the fact of sharing. But let's not pretend there aren't a lot of men who regularly miss...

TalkingintheDark · 15/04/2017 11:55

I still think it's amazing the way the transactivist movement has managed to successfully deny the fact of women's relative vulnerability, despite it being an indisputable... fact.

ButtonmushroomEx · 15/04/2017 16:43

It's really not the cleanliness that concerns me...

It's i think a simple fact that there's less chance of a male "customer" entering a female bathroom and installing a camera to practice sexual Voyeurism than a gender neutral or unisex version.

https://www.google.ch/amp/s/amp.geelongadvertiser.com.au/news/crime-court/hundreds-of-people-captured-on-spy-cam-in-geelong-cafes-unisex-bathroom/news-story/4a268cada58f85573e81eb265ffcbb7f

https://www.google.ch/amp/people.com/crime/man-allegedly-secretly-films-starbucks-bathroom-with-hidden-camera/amp /

http://m.thenational.ae/uae/courts/cleaner-admits-fixing-hidden-camera-in-unisex-toilets-dubai-court-hears

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/reports/news/a47568/starbucks-customer-finds-hidden-camera-toilets-london/

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WankingMonkey · 19/04/2017 13:06

I'm usually OK with them tbh. Only time I ever had an issue was when coming out of one a guy barged right into me and knocked me back into the room. It was a mistake as he was clearly just desperate for the loo but still, my heart was pounding like mad.

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