Man walks free from court after statutory rape

[AssassinatedBeauty]

Saw this news case today, and am not sure what I think:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39305042

I feel that it gives the message that it's ok for men not to worry about the age of girls/women they have sex with if they have reasonable grounds to believe they're 16+.

But would you really suspect that someone that you met at 4am on a night out could be 12?!?

Maybe not. But the legal age of consent isn't 12, it is 16. If I had just met someone and they said they were 16, I'd be thinking 'Woah, that's a little too close to the age of consent for my liking, they could actually be younger. Probably best not to go there.'

I think if I was a decent bloke and I met a drunk 16 year old I'd want to check she was 16. And also what she was doing out at 4 in the morning. Not stick my dick in her.

If she was 15 and he thought she was 18 I would have some sympathy. But he thought she was "just" legal and that was enough for him to not be careful with her.

Maybe not. But the legal age of consent isn't 12, it is 16. If I had just met someone and they said they were 16, I'd be thinking 'Woah, that's a little too close to the age of consent for my liking, they could actually be younger. Probably best not to go there.'

Fair enough.

The guy raped her- he did rape her because she is 12 and not in a position to consent- so he did rape her and the judge concluded the same. So he raped her because he did not take enough care to check out anything, or even really talk to her. If he'd had a proper conversation with her he would have realised how young she is. So he is to blame.

Either way, he didn't know, but ignorance is apparently an acceptable mitigation.

It's not. He pleaded guilty and was found guilty of rape. As such i assume this will show up on DBS checks, clare's law etc? I guess if you want him to serve time that would nit be good enough.

May i ask... are you upset about his lack of "punishment" or the possible precedent it might set?

Joystir59 I truly hope you don't have any sons because your capacity for compassion for this young man on both threads is appalling. Have you forgotten what it is like to be a young person with the sap rising in you? Male and female are out at night looking for sex , yes he made a probably drunken mistake but perhaps like many of us he would not dream of thinking a 12 year old would be out looking for a good time. When you have been pubbing it and had a few drinks you don't think to ask for ID and anyway ID can be faked. And my 12 year old DD is far superior to my nearly 15 year old son when it comes to social situations. For the last time sometimes you cannot tell!

She lied & consented I believe?
You can't expect people to ask other people for ID before having consensual, casual sex.

She has been failed by her guardians - why on earth was she out in that environment at that age?

However, even the police thought she was of age. They couldn't in all sense convict him.

It's a scary sign of our society and casual sex but I don't see how he is the sole villain of the piece

with the sap rising in you

Bleurgh

So you are more worried that your son could get in trouble for sleeping with a 12 yo,than your 12 yo being raped by a 19 yo?

Honestly, what is bothering me most right now is at these parents, feeling sorry for a 19yo who thought he was having sex with a drunk 16yo he had only just met, in the early hours of the morning, and seemingly thinking that a man's right to do this is more important than his responsibility to ensure he is in fact having sex with someone over the age of consent. And people have talked about their 12/13 yo girls, and I have one of those, but I am more concerned that my 15yo DS knows how his father and I feel about this one.

Duxb she could not consent as she was 12 it's that simple.
He's the only "villain" as he's the only one that committed a crime by sleeping with a 12 yo.

I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption that someone you meet in a taxi queue at 4am after drinking in a club is of age

I feel sorry for the man, he's been named and his photo all over the press. The judge has made a sensible and humane decision.

But now we all know. 12 yo girls can pass for 16 and sadly some of them are vulnerable enough to be out drinking in the small hours. So now, that assumption is unreasonable.

I really think there should be an offence of having sex without due care or attention.If you hit someone with your car because you didn't believe there was anyone in the road is that ok? You didn't intend to harm anyone and believed the road was clear.I refuse to believe if he had taken any care or attention he wouldn't have realised this was a child, barely out of primary school.

There being a separate offence for that would be fairer.

I don't think it should be classified as rape if she consented, was not drunk, etc. I can believe that a 12 year old would voluntarly have sex with a 19 year old. (He could easily have looked 15, after all.) Statutory rape is a good thing when adult men rape girls, because it'd be horrible to ask a girl to prove she didn't want sex with an adult man! (It is horrible that the burden of proof is on the victim, anyway, but you know what I mean)

Being stupid about having sex is not the same as rape.

I have met underage boys who I would have mistaken for young adults from the level of their conversation, etc. (Actually, in my early to mid twenties, I was frequently hit on by boys, as I look a lot younger than I am, but when their pickup line is "In a year I am old enough to get a drivers' license and then I can drive you everywhere!" it is easy to tell the age ...)

A 19 year old would not be alerted to the girl being too young for him by talk of school and homework; he might even still be in school himself.

I don't know how the girl looked, and it could be a case of men willfully believing that any sexy-looking female must be over the age of consent, but without a picture, I really cannot judge that.

Has she actually been in a club? I've read the article but can't remember.

I feel really sorry for the accused in this. I'm glad this is being discussed.

No RebelRogue of course not. But surely logic must prevail. Human nature is that we are at our horniest at that age looking for sex, spreading our genetics and whatever else you want to call it. I just think she is being harsh on this young man who did nothing wrong on purpose. He met a girl in a taxi queue at 4am who indicated she wanted sex. He asked her age she lied. What else can he do? Who is thinking straight at 4am after boozing? Who thinks oh hang on she might be 12 when the police did not think so. How do you get round hormones and youth? ID can be faked, people are looking for one night stands what else could this lad have done. I am at a loss as to why this poster is so against the lad and not angry as to why a 12 year old was happy to have sex in the first place

Rebel - legally yes but he didn't know she wasn't of age.

Therefore the fact he hasn't been convicted is correct imo. Is it horrible? Yes. I'm sure he feels awful.

However the girl lied - incredibly convincingly and that needs to be taken into account.

I don't like the idea of casual sex in general, however he genuinely didn't know she was 12.

If she committed a crime, I'm sure people would comment that "at that age she is aware of the consequences of action" this is no different,

She was 12. Legally, she could not have given consent, no matter what people might say about 12yos. He admitted rape. He was convicted, but given an absolute discharge.

I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption that someone you meet in a taxi queue at 4am after drinking in a club is of age

If you met a girl in those circumstances and they said they were 16, how much money would you be willing to get that they really were 16 or older? Rather than 15, 14, 13? Would you put a fiver on it? Fifty quid? Two hundred quid? If a man sticks his dick in someone, he is potentially betting his whole future. I don't think it's too much to ask for them to give it a little thought first.

And yes, if it were an older woman with an underage boy, I'd say the same.

We should be teaching young people that sex is fine, it's natural, it's fun but it's not something you should get into without considering the risks.

Men, even teenagers, are perfectly capable of declining to have sex with a stranger, even at 4am. The idea that it's inevitable, it's just what people do etc is part of the reason why people are so willing to say it's not really his fault.

You're making a false assumption that I'm not bothered why a 12 year old was in that position. I absolutely am bothered and this girl has been failed massively. I hope she gets the input she needs, but I worry that she won't.

I don't have any sympathy for the man in question. I'm also not angry with him.

He's not "the accused" by the way, he pled guilty and was convicted. He was given an absolute discharge. I think I would have preferred a short suspended sentence to make it clear that ignorance is no mitigation.

Re assumptions/time of night etc,

I think with casual sex with a stranger you have to be aware that it is a risky behaviour for all sorts of reasons in this case because she was underage.

I have no sympathy for him, he should have been aware of the risks as should all.young people.

In this case I agree conviction + suspended sentence would have been ok.

And as.to.the "sap rising" content, we are not animals, we should be able. to. control our actions.

I also agree that if had.had a relationship with her, rather than a quick.shag, he would have realised her age.

as to why a 12 year old was happy to have sex in the first place

You might wanna rephrase that as it sounds awfully like victim blaming.

I'd be really suspicious and probably calling social services but I'm not a 19yo who's only known a world where parents take care of their children. At 19 I absolutely would have believed her, whether or not I wanted to sleep with her because in the world I inhabited then there's no way a 12 (or 15) yo would have been there.