Man walks free from court after statutory rape

[AssassinatedBeauty]

Saw this news case today, and am not sure what I think:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39305042

I feel that it gives the message that it's ok for men not to worry about the age of girls/women they have sex with if they have reasonable grounds to believe they're 16+.

Rufus could you clear it up please? Genuinely not sure of the point being made.

He should stay inside and knit and sew.

Looks like it's the last weekend that Elendon's son gets to spend time with his Dad.

" The answer, in a long term holistic way, is for the girl not to be there. "
I'm sure. Is the more important part of the solution for men to make sure when they're having sex they're not raping?

mousse

i think its the focus on the childs appearance and the time when she was out when the only thing that 'causes' rape, in this country at least, is a penis.

But nowin being deliberately obtuse about the rape point is just taking the piss

StealthPolarBear - I agree, and this case should be used to help educate people, particularly young men, as to the risks of one night stands.

I appreciate that the sentence was very light, but the offender is still legally a rapist and was very lucky that the police spoke with the victim beforehand and had no concerns over her age.

There may be other instances where a 12 year old child can be, subjectively, 'reasonably' mistaken for a 16 year old, but if a man has sex with her, he will be a convicted rapist, regardless of any exceptional surrounding circumstances.

Most cases will not feature the same mitigating sentencing factors (specifically the police interactions) as this case.

Rufus - i was being obtuse in response to Elendon being obtuse.

Elendon said that the only way to identify a rapist was by them being male (well, she said her son said that).

Elendon kept asking how we can identify rapists. I initially said we can't, then later agrees that there is one relevant physical characteristic in law - having a penis.

Then Eledon said that men should sit inside and knit and sew, because they are rapists.

I thought that was obtuse and responded in kind.

But nowin being deliberately obtuse about the rape point is just taking the piss

I don't think he is being obtuse. If you understand Elendon's question, please explain it to us.

Elendon said that the only way to identify a rapist was by them being male (well, she said her son said that).

Unwise. He should have 'taken the 5th'.

StealthPolarBear

" The answer, in a long term holistic way, is for the girl not to be there. "
I'm sure. Is the more important part of the solution for men to make sure when they're having sex they're not raping?

If this was a normal case and the girl was 16+ that would be the point. We do need to emphasis the importance of consensual sex. Men must be aware of this. Absolutely.

But this child was on the street at 3:30 looking and acting significantly older. She must have had collusion in this from the adults in her life. In this case, in this instance that strikes me as the big issue. The issue of how she looked and acted is not to blame the victim but worry why the victim was able to do this at 12.

"It's rather like how many people, but especially men, overestimate the ages of girl children in sexualized contexts (like drunken hookup culture hotspots late at night)." So very true.

This rapist saw what he wanted to see because he wanted an orgasm. The police didn't care enough because even if they thought her to be 16 she shouldn't have been drunk on an Edinburgh street at 3am and was therefore vulnerable. They failed in their duty of care towards her. The taxi driver probably hardly saw her or even cared how old he was. He was getting paid regardless.

None of those men have covered themselves in glory and all of them failed her.

Fair enough nowin

cad

My boys are convinced that every question i ask is a trap...makes asking what they want for tea very difficult

As a matter of interest do we know if the police were men?

I've been pretty much in agreement with Elendon until the last couple of pages but she's lost me now.

The taxi driver probably hardly saw her or even cared how old he was. He was getting paid regardless

None of those men have covered themselves in glory and all of them failed her

The taxi driver's duty was to drive safely. He presumably saw nothing other than a bunch of teenagers on a night out, none of them expressing any indication they didn't want to be there.

My boys are convinced that every question i ask is a trap...makes asking what they want for tea very difficult

Tell me about it, Mrs Wyllt went to get DS (15) from his girlfriend's - they've just got back and he flatly refused to eat any fish pie and could not be budged on it. Sheesh.

scallopsrgreat
I'm not sure we know how old the police thought she was, but reading between the lines of the sentencing report, the youngest one of them thought she may have been 17.

I take it that the girl wasn't particularly or visibly drunk, or that would have been mentioned in the sentencing.

I don't think there are sufficient police resources to take all 17 year olds, who are out late at night and may have been drinking, home. When I was growing up this would have been hundreds per night.

I did suggest in the other thread that maybe a curfew for children of a certain age may be appropriate, but someone correctly pointed out that predatory men could use this to help 'reasonably assume' that children are 16 or over.

I'm not sure what the extent of the police's duty of care is, or how it can be practically implemented, in instances like this.

I have to say I was surprised to realise that I had some sympathy with the guy. It is an exceptional case I think and shouldn't be generalised from. The girl lied about her age, everyone thought she looked older, she consented to sex and reported no regret or coercion afterwards (it only came out because she told her sister she was worried that she was pregnant). He burst into tears when the police told him how old she was and he admitted it.

But someone wasn't looking after her properly for her and her friend to be out on the streets all night and having sex with strangers.

But someone wasn't looking after her properly for her and her friend to be out on the streets all night and having sex with strangers.

Yes, she needs help and hopefully Social Services are looking into it.

Its sad how people are quite happy to accept a rapists motives aa what he says they are. Boo boo he cried. I had an abusive ex who always used to cry when you called hum out in his behaviour too.

The guy really didn't try too hard not to put his sick into a 12 yr old.

*dick

Bloody autocorrect

scallops

I think it's unfair to put responsibility to the taxi driver. He thought she was 20. What else is he supposed to do?

Its sad how people are quite happy to accept a rapists motives aa what he says they are.

Its extraordinary the extent to which people will bend over backwards to make sure that the consequences are minimal, even to the point of saying that it was really he was the victim.

I do not disagree that she was not being looked after. She should not have been there. She should have been tucked up in bed.
But it doesn't change the fact the main reason she was raped was the rapist and he main lesson to learn is "if you have sex make sure you aren't raping someone".

Stealth "if you have sex make sure you aren't raping someone".

A message I give out loud and clear, you just hope they listen.