Man walks free from court after statutory rape

[AssassinatedBeauty]

Saw this news case today, and am not sure what I think:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39305042

I feel that it gives the message that it's ok for men not to worry about the age of girls/women they have sex with if they have reasonable grounds to believe they're 16+.

I don't think anyone has called her a Lolita. And clearly a 12 year old out at night on the vodka at 4am has parents or guardians that need to up their game.

I do the idea of sleeping with a stranger makes my skin crawl but think people like us are going the way of the dinosaurs.

oh no, I don't mean that it isn't his fault, it absolutely is, he is the one that did it.

But in practical terms I do think it is very very tricky, if someone says that they are 16 and they look 16 and they give their consent, I'm not sure what else can be done as it stands at the moment.

A huge shift towards the responsibility being placed on the man to be held responsible if that is not the case would definitely be a good thing.

Assasinated well yes - what else would you suggest they do? Have to provide a birth certificate every time they have sex?

I have no problem at all with one night stands. But sex in general has risks depending on who you do it with, how and where. As an adult you accept those risks.
Dh can be 100% sure that I am over 16 as we've known each other for 20 years. He assumes to a quite high level that I am on the contraception we agreed and that I have no sexual infections. He can't be 100% sure of these though.
If we'd just met he'd need to assume an even lower chance of those things.

Doesn't that rather play into the hands of those that say a woman's word can't be relied upon? Do we really need to carry ID or get chipped to have sex because we can't be trusted to tell the truth?

I think it makes a huge difference that he admitted it and burst in to tears when he found out her age. He hasn't tried to shift blame from himself. He didn't say she looked 16 as justification - witnesses said that as mitigation.
If he'd tried to plead not guilty on grounds of not realising her age I'd have no sympathy. As it is it appears he made a big mistake and I think the sentence us appropriate.
I totally feel for the girl though and I hope social services are helping her out.

If you turn the argument around slightly I have a one night stand with a man I met in a bar

Next day I find out he is married

Ok he will have been seen as a cheat but I am quite sure I would also be questioned about not knowing he was lying as I had only just met him

So why is it impossible for us to think that men can't be or shouldn't be wary too especially when girls are saying they are 16

Short of asking to see her driving license/passport/a payslip, I don't know what he should have done.
When the police told him how old she was, he burst into tears according to the BBC. He accepted responsibility. She lied, the taxi driver, the police and the judge thought she was older than 16. Why would he not believe her when she lied about her age? Or should women (which he thought she was) not be believed now?
I knew a girl like this. To an extent I was a girl like this and was very lucky not to have come a cropper, with hindsight.

I absolutely agree with SPB that sex carries risks, and you need to recognise the consequences of those if you choose to have sex with anyone. I was just pointing out that he hadn't been acquitted, nor had he pleaded not guilty to rape.

I think people have failed this girl but it is not the young man in question.
Both the taxi driver and the police have confirmed she looked over 16 and in the case of the taxi driver, around 20 years of age.
Like a previous poster mentioned, if you meet someone in town in the middle of the night or in a bar, you would not expect them to be under 16, especially so if they look to be and tell you to be over this age. Also we are not talking about a 45 year old predatory male, we are talking about a 19 year old sleeping with what he believed to be a 16 year old.

NoCapes well, either not have sex (apparently a ridiculous idea), or accept the risk that he could be committing a crime and accept the possible consequences.

This story has been reported by most news outlets, and the comments on the Facebook feeds are appalling. So many people are laying the blame on the child, and even calling for her to be prosecuted (what for, I have no idea).

But the law is there to protect children it can't be ignored

I am not sure if he could be charged with something other that rape but I feel very uncomfortable with him being let off completely (who knows maybe he is a great actor and is putting on an act if she can why can't he)

I do not believe for a minute that a 12yo can pass for 20. Nor 16.

She might wear the make up. She might wear the clothes. She might be in a place she should not be.

But the minute you converse with her, it will be clear.

Obviously none of these people bothered to do that. Any convenient hole, eh. Disgraceful.

Men have needs AF

But the minute you converse with her, it will be clear

That's funny, because the police conversed with her for some time earlier that night and had no concerns about her age. And they were specifically looking for kids who were too young to be out.

Nope. It depends on the individuals. I often ran rings around the 6th form boys in conversation and some of those were 19. This was in the days when only the brighter kids stayed on. The bloke in this case could be thick as mince for all we know.

Af the judge the police they all thought she was older. And the police talked to her at length according to the report and they thought she was o,dear even after that.

Some kids can and do pass - DD friend definitely would have. And did. She was in clubs at 13. Drinking. And I wouldn't have raised an eye other than I knew her from school.

Ds friend chatted her up and only Ds knew her from the house and tipped his friend the nod to step away would they not have at least snogged / got off / whatever.

So responsibility always lies with the child? Men have no expectations of them with regard to checking that they're not committing a sex crime?

That's not what the judge says. She specifically draws out how exceptional this case is in her statement.

If the judge got this wrong in applying no punishment, beyond a finding by the court that the man committed rape, what should the punishment have been?

I question the kind of upbringing that leads a 12yr to be out drinking ,pretending to be older and having sex.Hate slum Britain .

Maybe try opening your mind a tiny bit. A few decades ago I was this girl, I regularly got served in pubs aged 12. I had a perfectly nice upbringing in a naice area, my parents celebrate 50 years of marriage this year, we're very close. I was an expert at lies and deceit, they thought I was at my friends. Why did I end up going down that road? Grief, and the inability to deal with it. Thankfully I found my way back in my late teens.
I don't know this girl's story but neither do any of us, she might have sneaked out once her parents were asleep for all we know.

All the people that talked to her and concluded she was appropriate to have sex with. All men were they ?

The girl I knew who passed for late teens when she was 13 was the daughter of a policeman.

It isn't always 'immediately clear' at all, hence how retailers routinely get into trouble for failing test purchases. It can be very difficult to tell a teenagers age once they are physicallly mature ie gone through puberty.
The only surprising factor to me is that she was 12 rather than 13 or 14. That is a little bit more unusual. It used to be completely normal for teenagers to get served in pubs, even nightclubs, from the age of 13 or so. As they were socialising with adults it's likely at least some of them were also having sex with them.