Man walks free from court after statutory rape

[AssassinatedBeauty]

Saw this news case today, and am not sure what I think:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39305042

I feel that it gives the message that it's ok for men not to worry about the age of girls/women they have sex with if they have reasonable grounds to believe they're 16+.

Not a very substantial argument if you have to fake a quote...

It was an accurate summary of your position, I quote in bold.

You said he shouldn't be held accountable. Presumably this means in law (if not feel free to clarify). Therefore you are maintaining it sometimes should be legal to have sex with kids.

(especially to people of dissimilar age, eg the taxi diver) but surely if you talk to someone for a while you would have doubts

That is a good point. The taxi driver is likely to be in the range 30 to 55. He won't have given her more than a cursory glance. He has no axe to grind unlike the man (and possibly the police ) but his evidence may well be very unreliable.

So far as the girls, I cannot fathom how the parents /guardians of either girl allowed them to be out that late unless each thought there was a sleepover at the other's - although the report refers to them both travelling to Edinburgh. I wonder if anything happened with the 13 year old friend?

Teenagers will have sex and generally girls are not interested in younger boys. I don't have a problem with 16 year olds having sex with 19 year olds ; I don't have a problem with one night stands.

I do think it extraordinary that he did not twig that it was a remarkable coincidence that she happened, conveniently, to be 16 and that he did not pick up from their conversation that she was 12.

I'm trying to recall what I or my son were like at 12. I'm pretty sure that no matter how articulate we were, we would not have passed as 16. The girl was presumably drunk which must also have affected her ability to act older than she was.

My yr13 dd and her friends may be anomalously sensible I suppose.

Amy... I think you're maybe posting too much personal info on this thread, it might be wise to step away and go to bed.

iamamy

DPspottedmyusername I know it is. You're the one too scared to reveal your usual name even though I suspect I know who you were. Pathetic.

No I'm not. And I doubt you do- I don't I've never posted on part of mumsnet before

Again with the sweeping statements- 'pathetic' it's not a very persuasive argument

Errol excuse me? You choose to abuse me out of all the rape apologists posting? Wow.

miffer

Not a very substantial argument if you have to fake a quote...

It was an accurate summary of your position, I quote in bold.

You said he shouldn't be held accountable. Presumably this means in law (if not feel free to clarify). Therefore you are maintaining it sometimes should be legal to have sex with kids.
.......

No it's inaccurate- hence fake

its his responsibility to be bloody sure she's not a child. If he can't do that - then FGS just don't have sex with her

So if he asks for ID and she shows him fake id, he has passed the responsibility check but he would still get done for rape.

There is no way around this i can see.

I think he should of been let of with caution and then if he ever got caught again he should of had the book thrown at him the second time, jail time.

Amy - you misunderstand... I'm trying to protect you.

DPspottedmyusername

How can you hold him accountable for this?

Why are you asking me this if you agree he should be held accountable?

So if he asks for ID and she shows him fake id, he has passed the responsibility check but he would still get done for rape.

That didn't happen.

Why are you invented imaginary possibilities he could have exhausted?

Sorry Errol I was on the defensive and did completely misunderstand. I know what you mean now and very much appreciate your post - you are right, as well. Shall get to bed

miffer do you ask people for ID before sex?

Age of criminal responsibility is 10 in this country.

If there isnt a law against the child behaviour there should be one.

Any boy or girl under the age of 16, who lies to someone older about their age.

Not just to get sex but also to buy alcohol and cigarettes.

Amy - you misunderstand... I'm trying to protect you

Amy, I agree with Errol.

Thank you Lass and Errol I am going to get to bed. Make the most of my last day of being 16...today!

DPspottedmyusername

Do you think he should be held accountable?

Stop trying to bait me into an argument you think you can win because you can't defend the position you put forward.

I have had sex once with somebody completely unknown to me. There is no way, at all, he was younger than 13. He was 38. I didn't ask him for ID. Are you now going to maintain that the 38 year old I had sex with could have actually been a 12 year old in a really convincing disguise?

Southall There is a law - that is why you see all those signs up about "under 25s don't be offended if we ask your age"

Responsible shopkeepers and pub landlords want to avoid committing a crime.

I know that isn't the point you were making but it's so self evidently stupid I will let it speak for itself.

Lass completely agree I don't know what the parents (or whoever was supposed to be looking after them) were thinking. I remember being out late at 15/16, using the "sleeping over with friends" excuse, but not at 12 ffs. At that age we were all very much checked up on and couldn't have sneaked off for a whole night regardless how much we tried.

But I disagree about passing as older conversationally. At 13 I convinced one of my neighbours (who was about 20) that I was choosing which A levels to do. A few years ago my niece, aged 12, had a half hour conversation with an art history professor who then encouraged her to apply to her university and was astonished to be told that she'd have to wait at least five years for the application. Children often tailor their speech to whoever they are speaking to. Not all of them, of course. Many could barely pass for their own age never mind older. But it's not such an unusual thing to happen.

I agree a 12 year old could pass for 16 in the circumstances described. What I don't understand is how that narrows his options to

A) Believe her and have sex with her

Or

B) Ask for ID (WHICH IS TOTALLY RIDICULOUS AND COULD BE FAKE ANYWAY!!!)

How about

C) Don't have sex with the random girl you just met who claims to be dead on the age of consent. If you do you may just end up with a rape conviction.

Why is C so crazy?

I don't know Miffer, your option (c) sounds completely reasonable. But clearly it's an absurd suggestion for some people.

C) Don't have sex with the random girl you just met who claims to be dead on the age of consent. If you do you may just end up with a rape conviction

That doesnt work either as she could have easily said she was 18. The taxi driver thought she was 20.

There is really is no fool proof answer to this.

Even medical experts cannot judge someones age quickly, they have to resort to doing dental checks and what nots.

That doesnt work either as she could have easily said she was 18.

What if she was 10 but claimed to be 45?

Can you stick to what actually happened rather than inventing more palatable scenarios?

Also if were to join in the speculation I would argue she was claiming she was 16 as it was the oldest she thought she could believably claim to be.

I do think it extraordinary that he did not twig that it was a remarkable coincidence that she happened, conveniently, to be 16 and that he did not pick up from their conversation that she was 12.
I agree it's extraordinary, but in this case the victim spoke at length with two police officers who were specifically looking for children who were too young to be out, and they had no concerns.

If she could trick them then I guess she must have been very convincing.