should I reprimand my son?

[user1481132670]

he is playing pirates, nothing wrong with that of course but he is going about with a plastic sword saying he is going to "rape and pillage" which is making me somewhat uncomfortable

Absolutely!

How old and where has he heard that?

Jeez! Where has he heard that from?!

How old is he?

He'll have heard it in the context of the whole phrase. It's what Vikings do. He'll have no idea what it means specifically. No need for a reprimand but you just say "we don't talk about raping people - that's not nice".

Pillaging on the other hand...well I'm not quite sure what it entails but he can probably keep that one !

Pillaging was probably even worse. The Vikings would steal all the stored food so the victims all starved, this being before Tesco. I'd rather be raped once than starve to death. And that's not a sentence I ever foresaw writing.

Perhaps it's not so much about reprimanding.

Maybe a chat about what 'raping and pillaging' means. I'm going to have look up pillaging.

Tricky really as it's hard to be a gentle considerate non-violent pirate.

But yes, indicating that raping is something that happens in the real world which hurts people very badly - which is why the word should only be used carefully and accurately would be useful.

Maybe it's actually better to talk about pillaging as the newspapers aren't full of accounts of how some figure has been unmasked as a serious pillaging.

The meaning of the word rape has changed, hasn't it?

In the past it meant to kidnap (Viking society was built on slavery). The word ravish meant to rape.

KIds still shouldn't say rape in a game.

I'm wondering if we're not overthinking this. Kids kill each other all the time in games. I didn't buy guns for my DS and then one morning one of them tore out a corner of his toast, leaving an L shaped bit that made a gun to shoot his DB with. After that I caved. I used to play very aggressive games in the woods when I was little. Uttering dire threats, that meant absolutely nothing, was all part of the fun.

I am puzzled by what idiot exposed small kids to the phrase "rape and pillage" because it's horrible, but the general idea that smalls utter warlike threats is pretty unremarkable. They grow out of it. At least my little DBs and I did.

It's not really about the violence, more about what kind of language school are going to consider acceptable.

It would be fairly ordinary for kids to play pirates, armies etc in the playground.

It wouldn't be ordinary for one of the kids to talk about rape or being a serial killer for example. Then you're into some kind of South Park territory and can expect a call from the head teacher.

Oh dear. Maybe 'Stand and Deliver' is a better turn of phrase?

Is he old enough to read Swallows and Amazons yet in order to learn about civilised piracy? Or an educational visit to the North of Scotland maybe?

Reprimand him for what exactly? For something he doesn't understand?

The OP hasn't been back. I agree reprimand is not the right response.

Prawn, I'm not that surprised her son has heard the phrase. She hasn't said how old he is but it's such a trope in relation to the Vikings.

I'm not a fan of David Mitchell but this is an interesting take (written by John Finnemore) on how the phrase has been normalised and sanitised even.

Did pirates rape and pillage? I remember vikings did...

I might be too tired to internet tonight!

Ugh .. yeah I'm getting confused between pirates and Vikings too!

Me too. Backingvocals mentioned Vikings and we all followed suit.

No, there isn't a similar trope associated with pirates.

I suspect pirates were extremely nasty and vicious too and the point made in the David Mitchell video about time and distance airbrushing the horrors of the past applies there too. It's struck me that referring to current day Somali pirates as such hides how evil and vicious they are.

an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation:
the rape of the countryside.
4.
Archaic. the act of seizing and carrying off by force.

Perfectly correct in what he is saying so no reprimand needed

There are loads of things we can't say anymore because they are likely (not just maybe) to trigger, or because their original meaning has been stolen. Sad, but true. Rape is one of of those words.

I wouldn't say reprimand, but maybe re-educate?

Does he know what raping and pillaging are?

YetAnotherSpartacus, would you really tell Nancy Blackett that she does civilised pirating?

Pirates are supposed to hunt for buried treasure. Or fight other pirates. No need for any historically inaccurate rape and pillage.

Depending on the age of the child, the OP should either redirect her DS or else explain that its a term which is about hurting people who are weaker than you; play fighting should only be against an equal or stronger opponent. Theres nothing fun or heroic about terrorising villagers.

According to the Oracle (Wikipedia) pirates did (minimally) pillage, but it was in tandem with 'raid', rather than 'rape', although there are accounts of pirates raping boats with different pilgrims / immigrants on them. It is also suggested that they were largely 'gay for the stay', although also hypermasculine.

So there you go.

Steady On - No, I don't think I'd tell Nancy that to her face :)

Dear OP's son - thank you for educating us all.

Don't reprimand him, but explain to him what "rape" means and that you will disown him if he ever does it. (Okay, perhaps a bit gentler)

And get him some "talk like a pirate" lessons, the phrase doesn't really fit with non-viking pirates. ;)
(I think, technically, vikings are a subcategory of pirate? But children are more likely to roleplay a different sort of pirate)

Don't say that it is "not very nice to say that" - he's playing, and I think parents who forbid their children from roleplaying any violence at all are a bit wacky.

Explaining that while talk of pillaging is okay, the meaning of "rape" has changed and it is no longer accurate and he should say "rob" instead, would be wiser.

Why are pirates?

They just Arrgh!