FYI review of Trans suicide stats

[MissMargie]

www.transgendertrend.com/a-scientist-reviews-transgender-suicide-stats/

Interesting comment on the stats.

I don't want to debate this just to flag it up for anyone who is interested.

Thanks MissMargie

I was aware of the skewing of the figures and disappointed to see them used at the debate this week. Minimising the ansgt of parents of transgender children isn't useful, but if I was a parent in that situation, terrified for my child's life, I would find it at least reassuring, that the figures aren't as dramatic as is being said. I have copied and pasted below a post from WombOfOnesOwn who analysed what the figures would mean, if they were correct.

She also pointed out that Mermaids consistently ignore guidelines on how to present these figures. They are the only charity who do this, against all advice from mental health care professionals.

"According to trans website statistics, about half a percent of people are trans, so about 300,000 trans people in the UK. About 12 percent of the UK population is aged 15-24, for a figure of about 36,000 total trans youth.

If about half of these youth (18,000) have attempted suicide, and 1 in 25 attempts was successful, you'd have about 720 trans youth suicides out of a 10-year age cohort, so you'd expect to see about 72 per year. According to Samaritans, about 600 people in that age group, in total, committed suicide in 2014. If trans youth are successful in suicide attempts as frequently as other youth, you would expect over 10% of total youth suicides to be of trans youth, and for there to be a new story of a trans suicide youth more than once a week.

In the United States, the figures are even crazier -- if trans teens are as successful as other age groups when attempting suicide, there'd be a trans youth suicide more than once a day there.

None of this is actually happening, though -- there simply aren't this number of trans teen suicides happening."

This has been tweeted to several of the MPs involved in the debate I think.

PoisonWitch

was that before or after the debate?

This is a review of trans suicide stats

Mortality from suicide was strikingly high among sex-reassigned persons, also after adjustment for prior psychiatric morbidity. In line with this, sex-reassigned persons were at increased risk for suicide attempts. Previous reports suggest that transsexualism is a strong risk factor for suicide, also after sex reassignment, and our long-term findings support the need for continued psychiatric follow-up for persons at risk to prevent this

So if you are a transsexual, it seems that you must be at a higher risk for suicide compared to the average person.

Maybe not at as high as is claimed but I hope people wouldn't dismiss the fact that transsexual people are at a risk of suicide due to being transsexual.

But that's so interesting because it suggests to me that suicide is still a greater risk when the person is 'sex reassigned '. Meaning that transitioning does not actually 'cure' the suicidal tendencies of the person. This would be an argument against transitioning children.

The 'cure' for children with GID is transitioning.

I've spoken on MN before about my child now being denied mental health care because we refused blockers and hormones.

The answer isn't helping children transition it's giving them decent mental health care.

Maybe not at as high as is claimed but I hope people wouldn't dismiss the fact that transsexual people are at a risk of suicide due to being transsexual.

I wouldn't at all do that. It must be terribly worrying for a parent. But as mermaids skew the facts, I worry that it is used as leverage to go down the medical route, rather than treating it as a mental health issue. Or indeed any other comorbid mental health issues.

But it should absolutely be taken into account. The rate of suicide attempts, self harming, and general mental distress should be treated with more than one option. Especially as it doesn't seem to get much better after surgery.

I can't help feeling that not only does the trans umbrella include a huge variety of different motives, one very large one is people who are suffering from something else entirely.

Telling someone that changing sex will solve their problems seems, to me at any rate, to be almost missing the point. They can't. And the suicide rate increases about 10 years after transition. There must be a better way.

I wonder how these stats will change as society becomes more accepting of trans people? A lack of social acceptance must be a factor in suicide rates and maybe transsexual suicide attempts would drop as society becomes more accepting?

Unfortunately statistics can always be misused and can always be misinterpreted by groups with agendas. Healthcare should try to avoid such bias and use independent evidence.

Healthcare should try to avoid such bias and use independent evidence.

This.

I truly believe that if there was less shutting down, more debate and more research, it would benefit everybody. Genuine transpeople, those with a sexual fetish, and women in general.

Get it out in the open and treat accordingly.

I have been hesitating,to post about this but there was a trans teen suicide in our village, however the MtF young person who died was supported by their school, family and friends to transition but unfortunately committed suicide after starting university. I have always thought the transition prevents suicide narrative deeply simplistic.

Sorry to hear that wiggly. Simply dreadful.

I think both before and after.

That's awful wiggly it's possible transition was treated as a silver bullet to cure the mental distress and this means two things: 1) other forms of support and treatment are ignored. 2) after transition, when feelings don't go away, young person feels even more hopeless and a failure so sees no way out and does not seek help.

1) other forms of support and treatment are ignored. 2) after transition, when feelings don't go away, young person feels even more hopeless and a failure so sees no way out and does not seek help

This.

As far as I have read coming out as trans does not alleviate thoughts of suicide DESPITE it sometimes alleviating gender dysphoria.

John Hopkins University, completely reversed their stance on surgery purely based on the statistics that it does nothing to help the mental state of the person, even if it might make them feel better about their body.

I hope people wouldn't dismiss the fact that transsexual people are at a risk of suicide due to being transsexual

Except, as we all can sing together, corollation does not equal causation. We don't know that transexual people are at higher risk due to being transexual. We just know that they are at higher risk. It could instead be that whatever is causing these suicidal urges is also causing the belief that they should be the opposite sex - after all, lots of people are depressed and don't commit suicide, lots of people have difficult lives, and don't commit suicide.

It seems to me that treating the suicidal urges with good mental health care - as Elsa says - should be prioritised over treating the trans feelings - after all, one can kill you! If, once suicidal urges are dealt with, you still want to transition, then you're in a much healthier place to do so.

The biggest group of people at risk of suicide is men in their 40s. And then women in their 40s. Where's all the support for them?

I am so bloody angry about Mermaids lying about their stats - it's scaremongering parents of TG children and that's just unforgiveable. The whole thing feels like it's about justifying Green's decisions.

"I wonder how these stats will change as society becomes more accepting of trans people"

I wonder how the stats would read if society were as completely and totally accepting of feminine men and masculine women (and everything in between) as they are of feminine women and masculine men. And if children weren't so rigidly forced into gendered roles.

There's no support for young men with ASD who are suicidal either. In fact, mental health support across the board is suffering due to ideological cuts made by this government.

But that's so interesting because it suggests to me that suicide is still a greater risk when the person is 'sex reassigned '. Meaning that transitioning does not actually 'cure' the suicidal tendencies of the person.

Which makes perfect sense given transsexualism on its own is rare. It is usually coupled with other 'mental illnesses'. But treating the other issues is not the done thing, its a 'transition or die' rhetoric. Though this doesn't work either...so quite why the push for transition in children I will never know.

There is another set of stats doing the rounds by GIRES which states (I think) 48% suicide rate. It also (I think) states that 66% of transgender people have seen HCPs regarding (other) mental health issues.

I find it very interesting that there is always this leap that transgenderism = suicide when the other comorbidities are not looked at , and when (I think) transitioning does not change the suicide rate?

Given that even going through surgeries doesn't reduce a transgender person's likelihood of suicide, that the surgical and hormonal treatments aren't medically justified and should be stopped.

Elsa's course of action is very clearly the one most supported by the evidence. A wise woman.

GID is very like BID and anorexia. Identity politics notwithstanding, it seems to me that many, maybe most, of its practitioners are very troubled people who deserve MH care rather than enabling. As a doctor I know says, one of the symptoms of extreme neurosis is the whitening of the knuckles of the physician's hand.

There was much celebration among the Trans community about Gender Identity Disorder being declassified from a Mental Health Condition and renamed Gender Dysphoria in the DSM V.

But could it be that this now may be causing difficulties; in that as it is no longer classed as a MH condition MH support is no longer offered?

tubas

I wonder if that is indeed the case. Maybe the funding gets re-allocated?

Medicare stopped funding SRS this June because they said there was no evidence of therapeutic outcome. See here.

It appears that TRAs campaigned to have transgender removed as a MH condition, which left the whole trans population entirely self funding in terms of healthcare. Many TRAs are wealthy, having built up lucrative businesses and careers pretransition. They refer to the murders of poor minority sex workers when it suits their book, but aren't concerned with their healthcare problems. The DSM has a history of being much swayed by political considerations, and this is the most blatant example.