Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Does having sex with a prostitute constitute rape?

506 replies

quencher · 28/11/2016 17:59

A thread triggered this for me so I have decided to ask the question. If you consent to be paid for sex but don't feel like sleeping with the customer, are you being raped?

OP posts:
maggiethemagpie · 03/12/2016 10:51

quencher I find yourpost quite uncomfortable reading. Have you ever suffered fertility problems? Do you know how demoralising it is to get a BFN every month and then find out you aren't even ovulating? Then be put on clomid, and be thankful you're finally ovulating and then be told by your husband that he's 'not in the mood'?
Who the fuck are you to tell me I can't ask my husband for sex in that circumstance.

And he did have sex with me, if he'd really not wanted to I'm sure he would have declined. Because conceiving a baby was, actually, more important than him 'being in the mood' at that moment in time.

So if you think his not being in the mood trumps our mutual desire to conceive a child, then, well it's me who finds that 'uncomfortable'.

maggiethemagpie · 03/12/2016 10:52

Ok so 'sexually assaulting herself' Bertrand

TeaPleaseLouise · 03/12/2016 11:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TeaPleaseLouise · 03/12/2016 11:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ageingrunner · 03/12/2016 11:07

I also found it uncomfortable to read maggie. Maybe you didn't describe the situation very well though?

maggiethemagpie · 03/12/2016 11:08

It was sudden because I had to go to work that day and only had a short time to 'do it'!
As anyone in that situation knows you have to 'strike whilst the iron is hot' to maximise chances of success.

And I thought this was a feminist thread but you're defending the man's rights now....

As it was, the clomid did work, thanks for asking, the result is playing happily near me right now......

maggiethemagpie · 03/12/2016 11:12

Awww the poor little man, being jumped on by the woman and asked to have sex with her because she's just found out she's ovulated for the first time in months.... how could she?

My husband is sitting next to me and finds this all hilarious btw.

klassykringle · 03/12/2016 11:15

I'm in a similar situation maggie, where we've been trying for years around the "right date" when it's here, but dh has never once said he felt pressured or weird. We take our time to get in the mood. So I'm genuinely 100% sympathetic, but also a little uncomfortable at the description. Sorry if that bothers you or your husband - glad you both had success though Smile

(Incidentally, being a feminist does not mean dismissing men's rights. I had an abusive mum and know only too well how men can be victims too.)

maggiethemagpie · 03/12/2016 11:24

klassy if you didn't have the time to get into the mood, if you were ovulating and it was the correct day but you had to leave early for work would you not do it, rather than do it and not both me in the mood?

I guess it did touch a raw nerve as I felt DH was being unreasonable in that situation to make a fuss about not being in the mood when he knew how stressed I was about TTC and then discovering I wasn't ovulating etc etc. I felt a bit like 'so what if you're not in the mood - conceiving is far more important!'

I hope you have success in TTC. I am all for men's rights but find on these boards that often they are disregarded in the name of 'feminism'. So it was surprising to see everyone suddenly defend my husband.

I asked him if he actually felt 'raped' in that situation (or female equivalent) and he laughed, so I guess he didn't really mind after all.

PensionOutOfReach · 03/12/2016 11:25

Listening to women who have been in a similar situation than maggie, I can promise you that having sex because you ought to and not because you want to is the norm for most couples with fertility issues.
Which is the reason why fertility issues can create such a big strain onto said couples. Sex is a mean to be pregnant, has to happen at X and y date etc... not something done for pleasure or fun.

But yp, asking a man to have sex because they should/will be nice or whatever is always seen as ok because they can't do it if they have an erection. And they can't possibly have an erection if they aren't arroused/want to have sex.

That's forgetting that when women are raped, some of them do get aroused /wet too. Does it mean that actually really they wanted sex too? (I know it's not the case but I also know it is an idea that is being branded around and a reason why some rape victims feel so guilty)

klassykringle · 03/12/2016 11:31

Honestly, it hasn't happened yet, so I'm not sure. I think I'd probably (selfishly) go in a bit late and lie about the boiler or something, or arrange a long lunch for us both to get home. (I appreciate those would raise eyebrows from most on Mumsnet though, so obviously not claiming to be perfect!)

I do get the "Quick! On the bed now! It's time!" feeling though, or thoroughly perfunctory sex. Smile

Possibly tone is everything. Your dh probably felt weird as he wasn't in the mood, but didn't "not" want to do it IYSWIM. That's a bit different from being pressured into stuff for someone's pleasure I think.

It's all very shades of grey and difficult to put black and white rules on. That's probably why our legalistic interpretations of rape have been (and still are) quite inadequate.

maggiethemagpie · 03/12/2016 11:33

I didn't actually say 'tough shit mate' to him btw. I just thought it!

maggiethemagpie · 03/12/2016 11:34

I think if a couple really really want to have a baby and there are fertility issues, they have to accept that sometimes they will have to do it when both or one is not in the mood. It's a means to an end. I mean really, what's a quickie when you don't feel like it in the grand scheme of things compared to conceiving a much wanted child?

TeaPleaseLouise · 03/12/2016 11:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
quencher · 03/12/2016 12:52

Maggie i think it's the way your post came a cross.
What you thought and his response was what made it uncomfortable. How are we to know what the full situation is when you have written a snippet? I have no idea what it is to go through what you went through. Flowers

I am not defending the mans right. A feminist does not hate men nor do they wish harm on men (Am not referring to your situation as harm).
If a feminist was walking down the road and saw a man being beaten up, I would expect them to call the police. I would not expect a feminist to say they had it coming seeing that they have abused women for as long as we can remember.

That's forgetting that when women are raped, some of them do get aroused /wet too. Does it mean that actually really they wanted sex too? (I know it's not the case but I also know it is an idea that is being branded around and a reason why some rape victims feel so guilty) that's is not what it was meant to mean. I was referring to penetrative sex, however form quick Google it does include oral sex. So my point is actually inaccurate because any man can put their penis in the victims mouth or vagina whether they are aroused or not. The mouth didn't even cross my mind.
The "aroused" comment was not referring to females. If a female felt a aroused but wanted to wait or didn't want to have sex, she is still within her rights to refuse and say no. If that boundary is crossed that is rape. It's what the law recognise.

I hope am are not victim blaming unknowingly.

OP posts:
EvenTheWind · 03/12/2016 13:39

Being a feminist doesn't mean that you defend all women's behaviour, all the time, at the expense of men.

Another who found the "tough shit mate" post uncomfortable reading.

BertrandRussell · 03/12/2016 14:21

"I am all for men's rights but find on these boards that often they are disregarded in the name of 'feminism'.

Really?

maggiethemagpie · 03/12/2016 17:16

I don't really care whether anyone found my post uncomfortable or not. I do think you are being extraordinarily insensitive to someone who was undergoing fertility problems, and whose husband had agreed to TTC. Then when she found out she was ovulating for the first time in months asked for' sex there and then as it wasn't practical to wait, and was told afterwards that he hadn't been in the mood... really, that makes you feel more uncomfortable than the fact that he made me feel bad for trying to conceive our baby at the only time I could?

What part of it makes you feel uncomfortable? The fact that I thought 'tough shit mate' (thought, not said)

Well, whatever. It was a lot more 'uncomfortable' going through fertility problems and then being made to feel bad for demanding a shag, believe me.

TeaPleaseLouise · 03/12/2016 17:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

maggiethemagpie · 03/12/2016 17:57

It would be distasteful, but if a long term partner revealed he'd used a prostitute as a one off say on a stag do a long time ago or something, it wouldn't make me split up with him.

EvenTheWind · 03/12/2016 18:17

The part where you had sex with a partner who didn't want it, Maggie.

I sympathise with your fertility struggles, but if he said he felt weird about the sex afterwards, how is that about making you feel bad, rather than about the fact he felt bad about the sex? Would you feel so sanguine if he had made you when you felt ill, or stressed, or just plain not wanting to, because of timing?

Anyway, this is way off topic, so I will not comment further.

maggiethemagpie · 03/12/2016 18:35

Well, he wanted the baby didn't he!

But, according to the posters on this thread, I have 'raped' him (or female equivalent)

So I will go and hang my head in shame... not.

maggiethemagpie · 03/12/2016 18:37

And if we were desperate for a baby and had to do it at a certain time, I would have done it anyway despite feeling ill/headache/not being in the mood, and not said a word afterwards.

Except good luck hope this try is the one that works.

TeaPleaseLouise · 03/12/2016 19:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WomanWithAltitude · 04/12/2016 08:20

"Tough shit mate"? Bloody hell. I'm in agreement with those that are uncomfortable with that.