Can we talk about the football sex abuse scandal?

[DeviTheGaelet]

Headline news today, NSPCC are setting up a helpline, talk that it was organised and likely to be on the same scale as Saville.

I can't think of another occasion where sex abuse has been reported on so much. I also think sex abuse/grooming was rife in the 80s/90s, I can think of several coaches that have been jailed but not of a story as big as this. Also, other grooming rings e.g. Rotherham haven't resulted in NSPCC helplines I don't think.

Is it that we are becoming more intolerant of sex abuse?
Is it topical because of Saville?
Is it magnified because everything to do with football gets generally over reported anyway?
Is it taken more seriously because primarily boys now men were affected? (I also think gender may have played a part in why "Nick" was taken so seriously in the children's home allegations).
I've posted in feminism because of the gender angle but interested in any thoughts (including being told IABU)

Oh my God, Eric Bristow on twitter right now: The footballers should have gone back and 'sorted out' the 'poofs' when they were older, darts players would have. Darts players are tougher than footballers. He bets rugby players didn't have this trouble.

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK. I can't really articulate my disgust at his attitude.

Agreed Destiny. And that is, weirdly, a symptom of patriarchal essentialism. Men are assumed to be tough and incapable of suffering violation, so their abuse is denied. There is also the issue of women who abuse as well - though that's a whole different debate.

These poor men have suffered so much, but I hope something good comes out of all this.

Ugh, Bristow.

Just came onto post link about Bristow. Such an easy thing to say but no understanding of how abuse affects pp

m.bbc.co.uk/sport/darts/38139647

The BBC has an article on Facebook presently about Bristowe being dropped by Sky over his comments. I've read a fair few comments made by members of the public on the story and I haven't yet seen a single one suggesting that what Bristowe said was just banter, like there have been about rape apologists making comments like this about women victims, no one has mentioned that this is a witch hunt, that the complainants are just in it for the money or lying.

I believe all the complainants who have come forward. The difference in how they are perceived by the public is stark. And the only real difference is the sex of the complainants.

I have nothing but sympathy for the brave men who came forward about this. It takes an incredible amount of courage and I will be following what happens in the hope that they and any other victims get the help and justice they deserve.

However, Destiny summed it up for me. The contrast in public opinion when a male victim speaks out compared to when a female victim speaks out is stark. I have not seen or heard anyone say that the victims in this case are doing it for the money, that they must have consented but regretted it afterwards, that this is a witch hunt, why didn't they come forward sooner, people revealing their identities on Twitter etc. It doesn't sit right with me that female victims are treated with such contempt yet male victims are treated as brave as courageous. ALL victims are brave and courageous regardless of who or what they are.

*brave AND courageous

I think the thing here is numbers also - more than one allegation has been made. A disclosure where it is one child, and no other proof, is a different matter.

I personally thought my DS would have been listened to more if it had been DD; whereas the line seems to be blurred father-son boundaries, minimise, deny. It is not just girls and young women who are not heard.

Line - I mean way of explaining or rationalising

In addition to the clear differences in the way the media has reported this abuse and the public support for the victims, I'm struck by the constant use of the phrase 'it's worse for men to be sexually abused than women becausebit harms their masculinity'. I've never seen any research that suggests men experience sexualised violence worse than women but it is an accepted truism in the media (and MN) that it is much worse for men to be raped.

Cocoa, I don't think anyone is saying that only women and girls are not heard. I think they are heard, they are simply not believed or, as Stewie rightly says, society has deemed sexual abuse/rape against men to be worse than it is against women and girls. Even when many allegations have been made against the same person over a long period of time.

There also seems to be a prevailing myth that women and girls lie about rape, where men don't.

I agree with all the above comments. It is difficult for ANY survivor of sexual violence to come forward and talk about what has happened to them. For a number of reasons, shame, guilt, self blame and fear of how they will be perceived and treated both by the authorities and by society. Abusers know this and take advantage of this in the way they abuse victims. I have as much compassion for male and female victims, it's a horrendous and life changing experience for anyone to go through, especially at a young age . I want all victims to be heard and believed and to get support and justice.

I can only hope that the increase in victims coming forward now will change how pp are treated in the future.

It's estimated that the financial cost to society is £96k per victim. If only a perp would be fined that amount for every person they abused...

Another heartbreaking account of a male sexual abuse survivor. It had me in tears.

www.theguardian.com/football/2016/nov/29/derek-bell-abuse-coach

Because of anonymity for victims, we often don't hear their voices and don't really get how long lasting the effects are which I think helps pp to minimise it. And also most of the media's attention is on the perpetrator. I remember one of Rolf Harris's female victims in Australia talking about what happened to her and because it's so rare to hear and see a woman talk about it, it was very powerful and upsetting. Why should the victim carry the shame of what has been done to them when it should ALL be on the perpetrator??

Ithink the thing here is numbers also - more than one allegation has been made. A disclosure where it is one child, and no other proof, is a different matter.

Even numerous women came forward to talk about what Jimmy Savile had done to them, a TV producer famously blocked the programme, saying that there was no evidence... "just the women".

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/newsnight-should-have-continued-jimmy-savile-report-director-general-george-entwistle-admits-bbc-8222484.html

Bill Cosby is another example of this. Many, many people (and sections of the media) are still defending him and smearing his victims, despite the fact that there at dozens of them.

Then there's some of the other big names caught through Operation Yewtree. How were they treated in the media and by public opinion (prior to conviction in some cases)? They were believed; their numerous victims were not.

I just read an article where Evan Rachel Wood talks about how she was raped twice. This is an example of the comments that followed

Wow those comments are disgusting. 😥 The perception of female victims making false rape claims is so widespread despite it only being a tiny percentage.

Delete - that made me vom in my mouth a little. In part because, let's face it, I rather doubt the very brave high profile footballers, etc, will have permanently changed the way victims are treated. On the contrary, as those comments above show, some parts of public opinion get over-saturated and "run out of fucks to give", sad to say.

Destiny - where can I read more about the £96k? PM if you think getting into it further here might derail.

It's a really horrible view to think this is being widley reported because it's football and boys rather than girls.

Infact it's vile.

I'd say it actually is having the opposite on here, there are hardly any threads about it. And in my facebook feed only men are talking about.

It's probably in the news a lot because these are people that have played in prolific teams AND the fact that other high profile abuse victims have basically forced people to listen and believe.

This was all pushed under the carpet years ago. Just like the other cases.

The allegations agsinst kitty were not believed and many other allegations agsinst goverment officials are still not beileved even when some one linked to a very famous family was known to get 'rid' of young boys on his boat - it wasn't taken seriously. Most of these were young boys. Who have tried to speak out.

I enjoy this board, I enjoy talking to my 21 year dd about very important issues that get raised here, but this notion makes me sick to my stomach.

Potnoodle, people on here are just analysing the differences in how victims are being treated by the media and the public. That's it.

These men have been brave to come forward and they have been praised for doing so by the media and the public. Nobody on here has criticised these men one iota, not once, we are just looking at the reactions that this scandal has provoked.

Look how quickly Eric Bristow was brought to heel for saying that the victims should have sorted out the perpetrators when they were older. Bristow made that comment about the victims and was immediately sacked from Sky and Newcastle FC and was pretty much forced to apologise.

Contrast this with the victims in the child abuse scandal in Rotherham, for example. The victims there were 1400 children in one town who were referred to by police as "undesirables". Nobody in the media was claiming that these children were brave. They were saying that the victims 'got themselves into trouble'.

It is not wrong to consider how the sex and social status of the victims plays a part in how the media report the abuse.

Frankly, if we can't reflect on that in Feminist Chat then we may as well shut up shop.

It's in bad form. And it actually does take away what these kids/men suffered of you want to argue the toss over how the media portray that and the Rotherham cases.

You should look at as a time line or as a whole picture rather than an individual event. Look at the progress and the evolving the media have made rather than. - 'they got better treatment than us' because no matter how nicely your putting it - that's what it boils down to.

What is in bad form? What takes away from what these men have suffered?

How has this discussion harmed these men?

I genuinely don't understand.

Of course it's being more widely reported because it's football. It's been headline news for a week now, even Savile didn't get that much coverage. News channels are obsessed with football at the best of times, not surprisingly they are reporting this so much.

This kind of case is the sort of thing that gives me massive issues when people say "women rape too" or "women can be abusers". Name me one case where a woman has systematically abused children over decades. Yet it's sadly not that unusual with men.

It's been headline news for a week now, even Savile didn't get that much coverage

Yes it did. Stop telling lies. Don't try and rewrite history for your own warped agenda.

this is the kind of case.... Well it's not though is it. NO one has suggested anything like that. That whole last paragraph Is a strawman argument. You show me one article, one interview, one link involving THIS case where some has said that.

it must be really horrible in your mind to sit there thinking 'these raped boys are getting better treatment than the raped girls of a few years back'.

Horrible. This is not feminism this is just plain old hating on men/boys - which gives this board a bad name.

"plain old hating on men/boys"

Nope.