Can we talk about the football sex abuse scandal?

[DeviTheGaelet]

Headline news today, NSPCC are setting up a helpline, talk that it was organised and likely to be on the same scale as Saville.

I can't think of another occasion where sex abuse has been reported on so much. I also think sex abuse/grooming was rife in the 80s/90s, I can think of several coaches that have been jailed but not of a story as big as this. Also, other grooming rings e.g. Rotherham haven't resulted in NSPCC helplines I don't think.

Is it that we are becoming more intolerant of sex abuse?
Is it topical because of Saville?
Is it magnified because everything to do with football gets generally over reported anyway?
Is it taken more seriously because primarily boys now men were affected? (I also think gender may have played a part in why "Nick" was taken so seriously in the children's home allegations).
I've posted in feminism because of the gender angle but interested in any thoughts (including being told IABU)

'Accuser' is an offensive term to me in this context. And I explained why.

It's the term that papers like The Sun and Daily Mail use to imply disbelief. They pretend it is a neutral word, while all the time inviting their readers to judge, disbelieve and blame the 'accuser'.

If you'd referred to 'victims' (in inverted commas) it would have the same meating and effect.

You are right that anyone can be a rape victim - no one us disagreeing with you on that.

However statistically, it's worth point out that women make up the vast majority of victims and men make up an even bigger majority of perpetrators. It is gendered, and part of addressing the issue will involve looking at those gendered aspects.

boogers have you read the full thread? I've been a victim of assault by a sports coaching myself (not rape thank god). He was mates with several other elite coaches who've also been jailed. I've been on the sharp end so it's pretty hurtful to be told I need to read the articles to understand what it's like.
Unless you are implying that these mens experiences are somehow more relevant than my own in which case that rather proves my point.
Or you haven't RTFT in which case please do.

Devi,

I was interested in the case of Shane Sutton (former technical director of British Cycling).

During the Olympics on the BBC, Chris Hoy and Bradley Wiggins went out of their way to say how wonderful Sutton was. They weren't asked about him in any discussion, but decided to use their platform to support him anyway. I was very disappointed in both of them. It really did look like powerful men in the sport closing ranks which, completely unwittingly on their part, seemed to underline Jess Varnish's point.

I also noticed that Jason Kenny said nothing about Sutton. His silence seemed to speak volumes at the time.

The cynic in me wonders whether Jess Varnish's complaint about the sexism of Sutton would have been taken quite so seriously if Sutton hadn't also been so disparaging about Paralympic cyclists.

Good points kidnapped. I'd forgotten about Wiggins etc doing that.

Devi yes, I have read the entire thread. I feel I have nothing more to contribute as everything I say is being distorted out of context. I feel that if I sat down for a natter over a coffee and digestive we would very much agree, but over the internet I think what we're saying doesn't come across as we intend it to.

We're both survivors. That's our common ground here.

Well I don't think we necessarily would. I get the strong impression from what you've said about male victims and your refusal to name what happened to Ched Evans victim as rape that you do think on some level that abuse against men is "worse" than abuse against women. I will never agree with that.

I can't think of another occasion where sex abuse has been reported on so much.

Saville? The Catholic church? Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you're point is. If the evidence suggests that these men are guilty, the story cannot receive too much attention. Would you rather it were toned down a bit?

Maybe try RTFT leila

I think we all need to agree that all sexual abuse - whether that's men abusing girls, men abusing boys, women abusing boys or women abusing girls - has absolute parity in terms of moral abhorrence.

Of course we should also bring a political perspective to the issue - noting, as WomanWithAttitude points out, that it is, in a general sense, a gendered one. The preponderance of abusers are male and victims female. That does not mean any one victim is one iota less deserving of our sympathy and undivided attention; and neither does it imply any one perpetrator is one iota less deserving of our condemnation.

I was responding to the OP's original question. Sorry I spoke.

We've already agreed that, I think. No one on the thread has argued otherwise.

I think it is possible to discuss how the media and the public treat the cases without buying into or promoting the idea that there is a hierarchy of victims or perpetrators.

Yy WWA.

Agreed WWA.

Devi
Boogers

I think people are surprised that it it is happening in a male sporting environment, rather than with priests, choirmasters etc. This may be because of thinking of footballers as being heterosexual, attractive and with access to lots of women.

There is a historic case about H the photographer in France having raped four little teenage girls, but somehow that horribly seems no surprise these days.

I have a feeling many male/boy rape victims never tell anyone in case anyone thinks they are gay, or because they blame themselves, so I hope this helps them not be ashamed to in the future.

I do not think the public as a whole realise how many men get raped by other men. I was very surprised to read this for example.
www.theguardian.com/society/2011/jul/17/the-rape-of-men

Now the inquiry is being broadened out to include other clubs I'm noticing that no one is describing it as a ' witch hunt ', or are questioning the motives of the men coming forward. They aren't being accused of just doing it for the money or questioned as to why they didn't say anything before. Instead they are being commended for being brave. Yes they are brave. But the contrast with how the female victims of high profile abusers have been treated at times is striking.

Absolutely Destiny. Spot on post.

I would add. We don't disbelieve them either when they make the 'allegations'. We don't say they were asking for it as 13/14 year olds.

There is a historic case about H the photographer in France having raped four little teenage girls, but somehow that horribly seems no surprise these days.

I don't know why you've protected him by anonymising it? Name the fucker - David Hamilton. We shouldn't be afraid to name rapists for what they are, and I think it's powerful when we do so.

And yes, I totally agree with Destiny's post. It's notable how little smearing of the victims had taken place.

It's good that this is the case, but wouldn't it be nice if this were replicated next time women report male abuse?

I wasn't protecting him as it happens! Sometimes I've noticed how quickly a Mumsnet post comes up on a Google search if you put a name like that.

I agree with Destiny. Only the other day I saw yet another report that the police had failed a child in yet another case, having decided she 'was street wise'.

I do not think the public as a whole realise how many men get raped by other men.

Yes, I think that's true, but still more women are raped by men. Rapists rape irrespective of sex of their victim because rape is about control/anger rather than sex.

I too agree with Destiny - it is quite striking, the difference in reporting compared to, say, Rotherham is quite striking

IMO, it is also due to the fact that youth football is seen as quite 'macho' and an environment that parents want their children to spend time in, it's overall viewed as a positive thing (as opposed to those 'troubled' girls in Rotherham who 'had it coming'... ).

It's hideous, either way, of course

Yes wwa and destiny That's why I started the thread. It struck me too. I wish all victims got the same respect and sympathy these ones are

Kind's post did remind me of a shocking comment a fellow student made back when I was at university in the 80s: "Of course I was buggered at . We all were." The most chilling thing was how utterly matter-of-fact he was about it.

I wonder if these cases will prompt a lot more men to come forward and talk about sexual abuse they experienced when they were young, as happened after Savile's victims started to come forward?

I agree there is a lot more sexual violence towards men than most pp realise and especially boys and young men.