Ftm activist offended they are no longer a woman

[Amalfimamma]

For all the Spartacuses. Have a laugh on me

here

[Datun]

People with actual gender dysphoria deserve our respect and protection. I'm basically okay with this very small number of people having access to female spaces.

I too would be fine with this, obviously we have all been fine with this for years. But I don't see how it's going to happen. The TRAs have turned it into a 'come one come all' issue. And when the crimes start ratcheting up as a result, the genuine trans people will be viewed with equal suspicion. As if they don't have enough problems.

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

I didn't mean that tru-trans should make their identities public, btw. There are other things they could do to stand with women. But I think that their silence is incredibly damaging to their cause (because everything is being polarised) and ours.

Bear in mind I am not talking about parents, children or young people here ... but you know I actually do think that 'tru trans' men and women, if they feel they are being disadvantaged by the TRAs should find ways to stand up to them. Their voices will be the most powerful, and, to be honest, I am feeling that yet again women have to do the dirty work and stick their necks on the line for others when so few (any??) minorities do this for us and our causes / issues.

[CoteDAzur]

"People with actual gender dysphoria deserve our respect and protection. I'm basically okay with this very small number of people having access to female spaces."

And how exactly do you propose that we tell them apart from not-as-tru transwomen?

[CoteDAzur]

It's like saying "Not all men are rapists, so we should be OK allowing the 90% who don't want to rape us into our changing rooms".

We can't tell them apart from the 10% who have rape fantasies, so we keep all men out. (% I made up)

I don't see how the trans situation is any different.

[TheMortificadosDragon]

And how exactly do you propose that we tell them apart from not-as-tru transwomen?

Well, medical and psychological assessments, resulting in some sort of ID ... oh...wait...

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

Jigglypuff, what you describe with the guy you knew is full-blown AGP, which is a fetish. If you lurk on transgender forums you can see men who start with porn, move on to cross dressing and end with surgery.

I think it's often difficult for women to understand the huge power that fetishes have over men. Women don't seem to get them.

Most of these men don't go as far as surgery. If you're going to wank yourself silly over something it surely helps to have a penis. Ditto fauxbian sex.

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

If you want to see some very outspoken, and sometimes very, very funny, discussion of trans issues, try the gay site, Datalounge. Gay hostility to trans bollocks is alive and well.

After all, it was a gay man who started the Drop the 'T' petition.

[LucyBabs]

I just lost 3 minutes of my life reading that shite!
I have only one thing to say, No one is assigned (or whatever stupid phrase Sam used) Male or female at birth ffs.. you are born male or female. The midwife doesn't decide, the parents don't decide.. fucking biology does

[lightupowl]

"And how exactly do you propose that we tell them apart from not-as-tru transwomen?"

Cote well of course you are right. There is no satisfactory way of doing this.

[Datun]

We should also make clear to the general public the difference between autogynephiles and gender dysphoria. At the moment there is a huge wave of fetishists claiming to be women and claiming to be the face of gender dysphoria.

Also from that site. Except if Maria Miller has her way, even gender dysphoria won't need to be co-opted.

[CoteDAzur]

I just took a look at DataLounge. We think MN is especially supportive when we talk about biology & trans people, but if we said a tenth of the stuff on DL, it would be a delete fest on here.

It's good to see that there are some places on the internet where trans dogma is seen & openly ridiculed for the laughable house of cards that it is.

[OlennasWimple]

Agreed, Cote.

Though actually I think we would be attacked for being bitches (more of the "not cool at school girl" stuff)

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

It's good to see that there are some places on the internet where trans dogma is seen & openly ridiculed for the laughable house of cards that it is.

Agree - but wondering if gay men get as much abuse for their criticisms as women do???

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

Yes, Cote, I love Datalounge. There's an amazing long thread about TRAs and Germaine Greer. Gay men are all too aware of the damage that could be done to their position if and when peak trans hits.

It's obvious from reading comments under trans supportive articles on mainstream American sites that many people see transwomen as sort of super oppressed gays. When the shit eventually hits the fan, what will be the impact on gay rights?

A lot of Datalounge posters seem pretty political, and a surprising number have empathy for lesbians over the cotton ceiling. There's an interesting blog post here.

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

As I understand it, gay men don't get the grief women do, for a number of reasons. One is that transmen don't create if gay men aren't attracted to them. They may not be happy but their female socialization means they're not used to demanding sex, plus they don't have the physical strength to enforce their demands.

Straight men would just laugh off demands that they have sex or relationships with transwomen so it's not a thing. If, in the wildest of possibilities, I found myself in bed with a man who turned out to be female I'd be furious. Wouldn't get violent. Would get verbal.

The second is that it's central to their self-image that women accept transwomen as one of the girls. Only mean bitchy TERFS refuse to
confirm their womanly gender identity.


The third reason is the demand that lesbians validate their gender identity by having sex with them and their ladystick. The internet is full of anonymous posters, but I have seen a number of accounts by lesbians of rape and sexual assault by transwomen, and found them credible. The worst thing about that is that in the circles young lesbians inhabit it is considered utterly unacceptable to accuse a transwoman of rape. Transwomen are so much the most oppressed, you see.

[shinynewusername]

Loving Datalounge. Best comment so far: "You can't fix crazy with a scalpel"

[IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat]

Loving Datalounge too. I was becoming increasingly despondent re the TRA shit but reading this has given me hope. Owen fucking Jones, take note

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

Glad to have provided something cheering. It gets me down too. We aim to please

My favourite so far is "the main reason TAs are so prolific online is because they can't be taken seriously in person."

[ClaudiaApfelstrudel]

And how exactly do you propose that we tell them apart from not-as-tru transwomen? - CoteD'Azur

It may be worth trying to answer this rhetorical question? I'd be surprised if it didn't have a lot to do with... mannerisms, facial expressions, lack of empathy, aggression, weird fetishes, inappropriate dress sense and perhaps most of all a sense of entitlement....?