Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Men are suffering this Christmas!

79 replies

quencher · 14/11/2016 16:09

That's what three of this years biggest Christmas adverts say. Let's all grab a tissue and pity their suffering. Poor men, right?
marks and spencer, John Lewis and Sainsbury's are full of pity the men.

It was the Sainsbury's add that made it click for me. Year of the male pity. Great dads or men doing extra-ordinary jobs to make life better this Christmas.

JL
Dad surfers outside in the cold making the trampoline while the woman sits inside on the couch.

M&S
Father Christmas goes out on Christmas Eve to deliver presents. Mrs. Claus asked him to be careful. You can see the wind blowing to indicate it's dangerous out there.
He comes back home, mrs. C is all cosy with a cup of hot beverage pretending about her activities.
She also has better equipment for delivering presents compared to her husbands, a sledge with no roof or heating.
The dad is suffering and can't manage to control his kids.
The little boy is mean to his sister, he manages to get her a present and we are meant to feel sorry for little boys being boys.

Sainsbury's
The dad has a difficult job and can't cope with being there for everybody. No time for buying presents and spending time with his extended family.
He really, really tries very hard.
Everywhere you look, men, men, men! Hard at work.
One of the people that ruin his day is the old woman in the cue.
The only time you see his wife is in the house. That actually says a lot.

So what's going on here? Are they competing on who can be the best man this Christmas?
Is what they do at Christmas better and we should appreciate them more while what women do is just ordinary and mundane. They all seem to be a lover the place and if not then they are suffering in some way shape or form.

OP posts:
Zaratall · 21/11/2016 18:18

Yes fair points, perhaps you're right about the boy/girl dynamic. Though it actually reminded me of my two boys. The youngest torments the eldest, and the eldest thinks the youngest hates him and so on.

If I was going to look deeper into it I'd probably say boys are looked on as a bit thoughtless, so it's more endearing for the boy to buy his sister a gift, especially shiny red trainers.

I saw Mrs Claus as being the hero, much like Superman hides his work. Although I also take the point about women not overshadowing men.

These ads are open to interpretation which is probably the way they're intended to be. They just want to appeal to the masses.

Zaratall · 21/11/2016 18:21

I agree it wouldn't have had quite the same effect if it had been a girl ordering the shoes. Girls = thoughtful.

YonicProbe · 21/11/2016 18:24

Is NMP3 a small thing or a big thing?

What about campaigning for advertisers to boycott the Mail and the Lego response?

What about "booth babes" at trade shows? Or the elegant slender ladies walking the portly male darts players in, evidently acting as "eye candy"?

Isn't it all a spectrum?

IAmAmy · 21/11/2016 18:25

I'm the eldest of three, with two brothers, we all torment one another. We also all join forces to torment our parents. I see this as all of our duties as siblings.

KickAssAngel · 22/11/2016 07:59

Actually, I'd love to see one where the single mum manages to pull it all together and give the kids a great Christmas even though the arsehole Dad doesn't pay maintenance because he feels hard up this month. But that would be a bit too real and gritty for advert land.

Maybe we should do some alternative Christmas ads ideas? Let's see if the Daily fuckwits like them apples.

LuluLovesFruitcakes · 22/11/2016 08:20

KickAssAngel I like your style!

Definitely think it's high time we see adverts that represent all different kinds of families, not just the usual mum&dad set up (though at least now we're starting to see more inter-racial sorry if not the right word families on our screens, I remember a time not too long ago that you never saw that!)

KickAssAngel · 22/11/2016 11:22

Here's another idea - parent spends a day busy at work, caught in traffic, getting jostled in shops. Finally gets to nursery & picks kid(s) up, they go home. Shut the front door and just the two/three of them snuggle down into quiet blissful Christmas together.

Can still have elements of the rampant commercialism required of a Christmas ad but a focus on a happy family time that reflects reality for many of us.

quencher · 22/11/2016 12:44

Ellie Fair point, but adverts are adverts. They're by definition fabrications designed to make people buy stuff. Don't expect capitalism to ever reflect the real world. No! They are not just adverts. They prey on human emotions. They make those who watch it believe this is how the world is meant to be. That is why people buy into them. They are not just selling products but the perfect lifestyle affirmed by societal values that hinders and holds women back. This includes what your family is meant to look like, who is good enough for tv, what sort of personality should be admired and hated. What we should relate to and appreciate.
If we are trying to break the mole about how men should behave towards women. Adverts and other forms of the media have to change too. A child seeing men and women behaving in a certain way normalises the action and will think that is the only way society should be.

Just because you don't watch it, it does not mean other people don't. If that was the case they would not spend 7 million to make one advert. Most people watching things online, some websites will not let you watch their show unless you have views the advert. Mostly, it will be children watching it because they are the generation that watches most things online. On tv you could if you want to easily forward and skip the ads.

I don't think Mn should have a limit to what we should discus. The adverts are hot topics right now. If there are problems I can see right in front me, why not mention it and hope that one or two people who may not have thought about it have a think too.

If you think this thread was so bad, start threads on topics you think are more worthy and we will join in. I start threads I think I can handle. As in, learn something new from people or sate my opinion.

By the way, my complaint about how people are portrayed in adverts, having men as those that work, do all the hard manual work. I actually believe that complicating am helping change the way people think working dynamics between men and women.
The dad in the m&s ad was portrayed as useless at parenting. The biggest problem this country has is men not stepping to the plate when comes to child care. Not financial but everyday looking after children. The women are expected to be the sole nurturer. Maybe, if lots of Mn, their husband and partners hadn't been socialised to think that they have to stick to their gender roles we wouldn't have lots of post about uncaring fathers in huge numbers in the AIBU page. We would not have lots of men who think they still don't have to take maternity but are ok with their wives because it's ok todo so.

I didn't think you were going of topic. We have the feminist board. Feel free to post what you think grates you. If you check my previous post, you will know that adverts aren't the only topics I pick on. Strangely enough, my post on Syria was left an answered. My post was not about mansplaining but taking the Micky on how they made them look miserable like it's the end of the world. Maybe that past you by. It's was like the advert was telling those who complained last year by saying, Here! This is what men do while you women do the cooking or your female roles assigned to. Which by the way, we haven't included this year. Instead of focusing on the beautiful mrs.clause and making her stand out, they decided to make the whole advert sexist and stereotyping. I would have loved for the Father Christmas not to have appeared at all. That just made her appear as just the wife. The after thought during Christmas because Father Christmas comes first. Hmm santa clause has a well publicised job and for Mrs clause, some people don't even know she exist.

Ok! Am going to stop because I will keep on rumbling.

For the socially disadvantaged women group of women. I sort of understand black women, so I talk about that a lot on here, a lot! If you know a bit about porn and modern day slavery. Start a thread a week if people respond, fine. If not then move on to the next post. Someone, will come in and join.

OP posts:
Xenophile · 22/11/2016 12:53

Again, a list of subjects that are deemed suitable to discuss would be helpful. Some of the more difficult threads, those about porn, rape, abuse etc are draining and it's. ice to have a slightly less harrowing subject to discuss in between.

And adverts are important. If they weren't, companies wouldn't spend millions making the damned things.

Xenophile · 22/11/2016 12:54

*its nice obvs

(Stupid fat fingers)

scallopsrgreat · 22/11/2016 13:22

Well for the benefit of Ellie, and I must admit I haven't seen the recent adverts being discussed, but the Xmas adverts for John Lewis et al also tend to be very white and very middle class too.

Loving some of the alternative suggestions on here though. It doesn't take much to think of some interesting stuff that bucks the stereotypes.

quencher · 22/11/2016 13:38

From the consensus on Mn, JL failed this year because it's not very Christmassy, not your typical tear jerker. House of Fraser very aggressive, amazon apparently is good, lidle was ok, Sainsbury's people hated the music, M&S was voted by far the best but the underlying sexism ruined it for some. I loved mrs. Clause and hated Father Christmas being included with the little boy.
Just imagine if it was mrs clause and the helicopter ride delivering presents? It could start a whole new trend. She looked fabulous, confident and capable. Her husband is not needed for it to feel like Christmas and prey on consumers.

If we can sell a lie about Father Christmas, why not mother Christmas. It's all imaginary and not set in stone.

OP posts:
Zaratall · 22/11/2016 14:34

Quencher i think that's just it though. Father Christmas and Mrs Claus aren't real! They're not real fgs!

There are some terrible ads out there. Selling girls pink sparkly stuff to decorate themselves with, and dolls and kitchens.

Why was the dad in the M&S advert useless at parenting?

SlottedSpoon · 22/11/2016 15:00

OP I think if you are that determined you'll find a misogyny angle in a sack of potatoes.

It must be exhausting being so cross all the time.

RebelRogue · 22/11/2016 15:46

OP the idea of Father Christmas is based on St. Nicholas(other countries celebrate him separately on the 6th of dec,more presents yay) who was real and was a man. Or at least that's how they say Santa appeared in the US.

quencher · 22/11/2016 16:07

i think that's just it though. Father Christmas and Mrs Claus aren't real! They're not real fgs! The fact that they are not real does not stop parents and advertisers using his image to Instil moral behaviour and indoctrinate young children. They have to be good to receive presents. It's not very different to using religion to instil what is perceived as morally right.

There are some terrible ads out there. Selling girls pink sparkly stuff to decorate themselves with, and dolls and kitchens. The pink and blue is marketing ploy to make us buy more for our children who have become more precious than they have ever been before in history. It has worked. Who ever came up with idea is a genius sales person who stereotyped his or her target market by using colour assortment as gender division after the the Second World War. Teenagers were created and separated from children into two different categories. The first group of young people who didn't have the burden their parents did. They had more freedom and they were for the first time allowed to be children. This opened doors to this sort of marketing. It grew and grew to the point of where we are now. In a nutshell, the freedom after the war is why the swinging sixties happened and advertising flourished.

Why was the dad in the M&S advert useless at parenting? He let the little boy run riot terrorising his sister. Stood there silently without saying anything. "I don't know! " look on his face. Shrug shoulder. Grin

I think if you are that* determined you'll find a misogyny angle in a sack of potatoes.
It must be exhausting being so cross all the time.* That's why you have to challenge it until a sack of potato is just a sack of potatoes for you to eat or feed your animals.
I can't understand how people don't think about such things all the time? It's impossible not to. It's like saying you can't think about sex when it's right in front you.
Am not angry and happy to free up my thoughts on Mn. That's my therapy Grin

the idea of Father Christmas is based on St. Nicholas(other countries celebrate him separately on the 6th of dec,more presents yay) who was real and was a man. Or at least that's how they say Santa appeared in the US.
The basis of this is true. The santa we know now, male, wearing red with a white beard was created and marketed by Coca Cola. I could be wrong though. Apparently, before that he was just a normal man wearing a brown cloak.

OP posts:
KickAssAngel · 22/11/2016 18:00

It must be exhausting being so cross all the time.
Personally, I think it takes far more brain power/brain washing to live with the cognitive dissonance of believing in equality, and turning a blind eye to blatant inequality.

Xenophile · 22/11/2016 18:29

Inequality and unfairness should make all thinking people cross.

RebelRogue · 22/11/2016 18:57

Looks familiar?

P.s. Sorry for derailing the thread.

Men are suffering this Christmas!
Men are suffering this Christmas!
quencher · 22/11/2016 20:51

Rebelrogue I understand what you mean and you are not derailing it. Threads tend to take life of there on and develop into something else.
This might be an interesting read. Straight from the Coca Cola website.

A velvety red Santa suit with a white fur trim, a thick, snowy beard, and a jolly face: the Coca-Cola Santa plays a part in all of our Christmaseses_. In fact, our Santa helped to define the look and personality of the modern Father Christmas. Where would we be without him?*
Although it may not seem like it now, this Santa hasn’t always been around. He was created by artist Haddon Sundblom, who spent the years between 1931 and 1965 fine-tuning the story of our Santa. Here it is:

www.coca-cola.co.uk/stories/coca-cola-and-father-christmas-the-sundblom-santa-story

OP posts:
RebelRogue · 22/11/2016 21:19

I just answered to your question as to why santa is a man and not mrs. Santa,and responded based on my (based more on st nick,than coca cola) knowledge.

P.s. Can't believe Coca Cola created blooming Santa!!!

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 22/11/2016 23:21

I can't understand how people don't think about such things all the time? It's impossible not to

I can assure you it is. I haven't given any thought to any of these adverts beyond that the Tesco one irritates me (but all the Tesco Ben Miller/Ruth Jones ads irritate me)

Other than the Thomas Pink email, which I did complain to the company about, I really don't care. But then what would I know, I was told I was thick and unintelligent on another thread a couple of days ago.

IAmAmy · 23/11/2016 01:09

Lass I really don't understand some of what you say. You are implying that one can only be irked by an advert if you personally find it vexatious. As for "I was told I was thick and unintelligent" - I have been demeaned, belittled, given sexist abuse by some men who've joined this board recently who you've weighed in to defend (clearly knowingly) on other threads.

YonicProbe · 23/11/2016 07:01

Lass

Wasn't it dim, rather than thick?

Anyway, as you may recall, I posted straight after to say I didn't think you were those things. As you may also recall, it wasn't Amy that posted them, so it's hardly fair to link her comment to that insult in the way you seem to be doing.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 23/11/2016 07:37

I'm not sure what you mean Yonic the comment I quoted was by Quencher in her post at 16.07 not Amy. How am I linking anything to Amy?

Amy , I don't follow your point either- I personally don't care about these adverts. You and others do, I don't . I am not "implying" anything - I told you my persobal view. On a scale of things that make me annoyed they don't feature beyond the fact all Christmas adverts are annoying.

As for "weighing in to defend clearly knowingly " - I don't keep a spreadsheet of who said what on which thread and agreeing with a poster on one thread is simply agreeing with another poster.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.

Swipe left for the next trending thread