Men are suffering this Christmas!

[quencher]

That's what three of this years biggest Christmas adverts say. Let's all grab a tissue and pity their suffering. Poor men, right?
marks and spencer, John Lewis and Sainsbury's are full of pity the men.

It was the Sainsbury's add that made it click for me. Year of the male pity. Great dads or men doing extra-ordinary jobs to make life better this Christmas.

JL
Dad surfers outside in the cold making the trampoline while the woman sits inside on the couch.

M&S
Father Christmas goes out on Christmas Eve to deliver presents. Mrs. Claus asked him to be careful. You can see the wind blowing to indicate it's dangerous out there.
He comes back home, mrs. C is all cosy with a cup of hot beverage pretending about her activities.
She also has better equipment for delivering presents compared to her husbands, a sledge with no roof or heating.
The dad is suffering and can't manage to control his kids.
The little boy is mean to his sister, he manages to get her a present and we are meant to feel sorry for little boys being boys.

Sainsbury's
The dad has a difficult job and can't cope with being there for everybody. No time for buying presents and spending time with his extended family.
He really, really tries very hard.
Everywhere you look, men, men, men! Hard at work.
One of the people that ruin his day is the old woman in the cue.
The only time you see his wife is in the house. That actually says a lot.

So what's going on here? Are they competing on who can be the best man this Christmas?
Is what they do at Christmas better and we should appreciate them more while what women do is just ordinary and mundane. They all seem to be a lover the place and if not then they are suffering in some way shape or form.

If you're shattering stereotypes, why are you sending the dad out to buy perfume and make-up for his daughter?

Surely the daughter should be getting a new toolbox? In which case, does Dad go? Oops - that would indicate that Mum knows nothing about DIY, how sexist. Or does Mum go? Oops - that would indicate that women do all the present sorting and buying, how sexist.

So if Dad go to Boots and buy make-up for his daughter, the daughter would have to be trans.

At least the Boots advert is female centred portraying that old classic that a woman is only beautiful if she has her hair and makeup done and is wearing a pretty dress. 'The gift of beauty' fuck off!

At least the Boots advert is female centred portraying that old classic that a woman is only beautiful if she has her hair and makeup done and is wearing a pretty dress. 'The gift of beauty ahh! I forgot the bane that is makeup to the female oppression.

Milk those are good pints too.
What had thought about was both mum and dad go in to both boots and DIY stores. But what would happen if you had lesbians and gay couples and their children.

Rebelrogue that is such a mature considerate understanding and out look.

I found this email from Thomas Pink, appropriately enough , in the junk folder.

The person in my house who might otherwise have received a Thomas Pink shirt this Christmas thought it was lazy, hackneyed 1970s style "humour" and is disappointed with them.

I want retailers to either a) go back to the bear and bunny (preferably without Lily Allen crooning) or b) drop their attempts to outdo each other with The Christmas Advert. Don't mind which

I loved Mog last year, very anti-dog though - you know if Mog had been a dog then Mog would have been in trouble yet Mog, being a cat gets away with the crimes and is in the end given hero status. Be more cat I say :)

M&S advert this year, I really like - maybe it's because I have a much younger brother and he was a PITA but i didn't feel it was a "boys will be boys" message I thought it was sweet that he actually loved his older sister and was saying I'm sorry I'm a PITA. Mine followed me around like a shadow and I have many friends who have young sisters who feel the same way. My brother thinks the advert is great too as he says "yup that was me, you were "cool" i wanted to be like you - I also liked the fact that Mrs C had a cool helicopter.

Sainsbury's and Tesco - yuck.

I don't mind the Sainsbury's Gogglebox ads. The Goggleboxers are a likeable bunch and might as well pay them to do it.

The Tesco Ruth Jones and Ben Miller ones are just another reason not to shop in Tesco.

I can't really get upset about these adverts.

I was however fuming at the Asda one a few years ago.

At least they show the men doing something and taking part in the Christmas preparations.

I don't think they can win. They are trying to appeal to the majority, how can they include every scenario?

I think there are more important things to be discussing to be honest. Lots of Syrian refugees are going to be suffering this Christmas - particularly the children and the women who will be drawn into sexual slavery. And lots of the disproportionately male homeless population will be suffering too.

Sorry but just think stuff like is silly bourgeois indulgence. Who gives a shit about a Sainsbury's ad?

Ellie

There's always bigger and smaller things to worry about, though. Like I can be annoyed about trump and the market stall guy who just gave me the washing instructions "for mum" on a kiddie gift.

Smaller issues often have the advantage of being less complex to fix. I can write to customer services at sainsburys - my MP has less direct power over Syria.

Fair point, but adverts are adverts. They're by definition fabrications designed to make people buy stuff. Don't expect capitalism to ever reflect the real world.

I suppose I have a problem with the way many liberal feminists focus on things like adverts adverts, 'Blurred Lines' and corporate pay while paying comparatively little attention to the bigger issues: porn, the sex industry and the exploitation of socioeconomically disadvantaged women. It would be good if more threads focused on how terrible the wages and working conditions of hotel maids are, for example. I do agree that sexism pervades our culture in all sorts of diffuse ways. But all over the world there are men masturbating to poor Eastern European women being degraded for entertainment. But lots of people don't see that as a priority. Some feminists are even 'pro-porn'.

Sorry I'm getting off topic, but I get bored of endless guff about mansplaining and privilege checking etc.

To say "there are more important things" on a thread about adverts when there are countless discussions about other issues is somewhat ridiculous. In that case surely nothing else should ever be discussed by feminists, including anything you've commented on, except fatal male violence against women because nothing could ever be more serious than that.

I just don't see what's so bad about those particular adverts.

I don't see it as the men suffering.

My dh probably would be the one out building the trampoline. He'll probably cook the turkey too, we do the Christmas shopping together too. He's not suffering, he's partaking in family life.

Asda got slated (rightly so) for doing an ad where the mum did everything.

Okay there are some such discussions, but I don't read many threads on here about the plight of working class and BAME women - or about the socioeconomic structures that oppress them.

And I agree that the way women are represented in the media is a valid point of discussion, but these silly ads aren't really where it's at. Rather, the problem lies with pornography, men's magazines, women's magazines, Hollywood and our whole overly sexualised, sexist, capitalist culture - which many women buy into as well as men and then justify with some rubbish about making a 'free choice'.

I watched these ads and they just seem like the usual Xmas fodder for Daily Mail readers. Nothing much can be inferred from them beyond that. They aren't a basis for a rewarding discussion about gender. You should no more expect the politics of Betty Friedan from a supermarket ad than Penthouse.

The topics you suggest Ellie have been covered in depth on here. The vast majority of posters are not "pro porn"

It is possible to think of 2 things at once and as Yonic said the small things are easier to address. Possibly Thomas Pink will take on board their stupid mother in law joke has lost them a sale.

Zara the suffering comment is I think meant to be sarcastic.

I don't see them as massively reinforcing any gender stereotypes.

The M&S one, the boy was just a kid. I'm not sure the gender mattered there. Santa Claus is Santa, I saw it as Mrs Claus playing the hero.

The John Lewis was a bit with the dad building the trampoline, but there wasn't enough content really to get anything more from it.

The Sainsbury's one is just meh. It's a crap ad about a busy man at Christmas.

They're all completely non offensive.

I don't see the problem either.

Zara you might see no issues but some others do. There was a thread on the M&S one in which some including myself discussed it from that perspective. I haven't seen the others in question so can't comment on them.

Should we also only discuss how much worse women have it in other countries?

I would be helpful if you would produce a list.

Judging by the fact there are around 2 million single parents in the UK, I would like to see more adverts representing that at Christmas. Yes, I buy the perfume and build the trampolines by myself, no man needed. Don't even start me on the heteronormative tone of them all.

No, Xenophile I just don't see the problem with these adverts. As adverts go they're pretty inoffensive. Just crass and stupid. Which most adverts are. And as I said, there are lots of men who are homeless who will be suffering this Xmas. They are also victims of a patriarchal culture that demands men are economically independent and successful above all else. So it's a bit silly and offensive to extrapolate that men don't suffer from a stupid advert like this.

There is lots of oppression of women going on in this country. There is domestic abuse, violence, sexual exploitation and poverty. But there is nothing overtly offensive about these adverts.

If I was going to look at patriarchal bullshit in the media I would start with Pornhub and Cosmopolitan and work my way down. But I don't think this would even feature at the bottom of the list.

Amy I'm usually quite open to seeing everyday sexism, not saying it shouldn't be discussed. I'm just struggling to see I have wrong with these particular ads.

As a pp says there are millions of single parents, missed out of advertising.

These 3 ads are all very different.

Zara briefly it was the presentation of the girl in it, only becoming happy upon receiving a gift, the boy being the one being thoughtful and altruistic, and my belief it would never have been made the opposite way round. It presented girls as society sees us and boys in a completely different way - mischievous, perhaps slightly annoying but at heart meaning well, funny and a bit of a 'loveable rogue'. One exception is the programme 'Humans' which presents an older sister/younger brother relationship in a far better way and reminds me of my own household. Then there was also "Mrs Claus" feeling the need to hide all the work she'd been doing to pretend to be a good wife who'd stayed at home waiting for her husband to get back from work, sending the message girls/women shouldn't be proud of our work, should never overshadow partners if we have male partners.

I don't expect everyone to agree, there was a thread on it where some agreed, some disagreed, similarly some (feminist) friends of mine really like it, but this is what came through to me as soon as I saw it. Also as I said I've not seen the other two ads.

ellie we had a mahoosive porn thread in the summer and I for one need a break before embarking on another because it was emotionally draining