So good you are out tonight

[jeaux90]

First post on this part of mn but an avid lurker. I work for a big tech company. I guess at least 80% of employees are men.

We are at a conference a specialist track within the company so maybe 300 of us there. I know a lot of the people.

We go out for a few drinks, group of 10, I'm the only woman (normal)

This younger dude who I hardly know looks me in the eye in front of the others and says "it's really good you came out tonight"

I saw red and asked him whether he thinks I prefer to stay home and knit. The other men piss themselves laughing but he then took me to one side and started an argument with me about it wasn't a sexist comment he made.

But it was right? I was gob smacked by it.

Question is ....anyone got a better retort? What should I have said or done?

I'm more lebowski

I think I'd agree with you, and rather like your retort. What I hope I'd have the presence of mind to say (and I might, I'm quite good on snappy comebacks) would be "Just me? Don't you like the others, then?" with a wave at the rest of the group. It would have been interesting to see how he explained it.

Thanks Annie and actually the other guys in the group all thought it was odd and sexist but then I just wanted some MN opinions as it was bugging me that I possibly over reacted (not me at all tbh) X

If the others in the group all thought it was sexist too, the chances it wasn't are vanishingly remote. You made a good retort, it doesn't sound like an overreaction.

I don't think its rude to challenge people's thinking behind their remarks, and I try to sort out the subtext at the time, as in the past I was quite aggressive (verbal) rather than assertive. I think you could have asked him 'oh really, why do you say that?" and then based your judgement of whether he was being sexist or not on his justification of his statement.

From all of the details you've explained - yes it was sexist. He was implying that it's a surprise that you are out. Why on earth would he be surprised that you are out more than any of the other people there who are all men? The implication is that you will be too busy with domestic duties/too shy in all male company etc - all reasons associated with femininity. Interesting that you refer to him as dude - you are clearly giving us an idea of his age and status (so not married or a parent or generally 'tied down' yet) because that is further evidence of his sexism - wow the older lady has come out! Because older men are thought of as still OK to go and socialise with younger male colleagues but older women are not - another sexist stereotype.

On top of that, you were there and know him and could hear his tone, see his body language etc You clearly felt that it was sexist, all of the details that you have posted on here show that it was sexist and your colleagues, instead of saying, "Of course he's not sexist, how rude you are, jeaux!" all laughed and agreed with you.

I'm having a hard time working out how this whole thing is anything other than completely sexist. But some people would rather believe that women, traditionally expected to be accepting and non-confrontational, are being rude than accept that there are entrenched and unfair gender stereotypes in our society which affect women almost constantly. Despite overwhelming daily evidence to the contrary.

And then, instead of a shame-faced, "oh yes, I see that was rather stereotypical of me" apology, you had to put up with him taking up your time and energy further by having a go at you. I hope the evening picked up after that!

From all of the details you've explained - yes it was sexist. He was implying that it's a surprise that you are out. Why on earth would he be surprised that you are out more than any of the other people there who are all men?

Because actually it is a big surprise that a woman of the poster's demographic would be out. In my experience of after work hours drinks the hierarchy is

1. men of any age or marital status excluding any man who got married or became a patent in the last 12 months.

1. Any single woman of any age who is not a parent.

1. Anyone else who has a reason to go home.

In my experience of after work hours drinks

But there's a difference between "who fancies a pint down the Crown after work?" and drinks at a conference you'very all travelled to - you wouldn't expect the same hierarchy, so why would it be a surprise in this case?

A surprise for whom? Not clear what you mean. In reflection on this I concluded if I looks and smells like sexism it usually is. However gracious and kind I usually am I think I have to trust my instinct (hackles). Thanks all for the advice especially those who suggested that might have been a bit more blasé in my response as I suspect it would have avoided the conflict.

Aww, shucks, come on OP, he was just being nice. you should take it kindly. Did you say thank you and give a girly giggle?

In situations like this, it can work to retort with a question Something like, 'gosh, just me who you want to compliment? Why are you doing that?'

Because if he has a reason, you can say, oh yeah, great (like he has a question he wants to ask you and this is now a great opportunity). IF it's some sexist bullshit, like 'ooh look at the little laydee who managed to make it out to play with the grown ups' then he's left trying to verbalize that, and hopefully seeing the error of his ways.

fwiw, I think these comments should be questioned. If not, then how will he ever reflect on his sexist views and attempt to change them? Of course, it would be even better if some of the male colleagues had a word with him about not singling someone out based on whether they're wearing a penis or not.

When i was young, if someone said I was attractive, I would assume they were being sarcastic and tell them to fuck off.

Later i realised it was because I was all keyed up and stressed about the situation they were just being normal.

Adrenaline and feeling self-conscious can sometimes not be your friend.

hang on, you knew the others, but didn't know him well, and he spoke to you? I think this is 'did the new boy squeak' anger in a group where you are establishing status by ripping into a new addition to the group in front of the pack. As in 'until i've given you permission I talk to you..

Sorry that sounded accusatory. It wasnt meant like that!!

What I mean is that it might be that your anger came from that type of subconscious reaction rather than from his intent.

It might well be that he was pleased to see you because he didnt fancy an all male guffawing geek night and thought you might at least be slightly different from that.

of course if he licked his lips afterward, rubbed trousers etc then ..well ..knitting is a good response!

What he said wasn't in and of itself sexist. Of course he may have intended there to be a sexist connotation such as "instead of being at home in the kitchen" but it's open to interpretation and what you (along with a few others on this thread) have done is took it upon yourself to tell him what he thinks.