Julie Bindel article on children in public spaces

[CallaLilli]

I've long had regard for Julie Bindel for the work she's done in combating VAWG and for standing up to trans activists, but I'm utterly disappointed in this article of hers that appeared in the Guardian yesterday. Because by not wanting children in public spaces, she's basically saying she doesn't want mothers in public spaces. Why are mothers of young children so looked down upon? On the other hand the article could just be clickbait or a parody as the Guardian seems to be heading that way lately!

It was a really shit lazy article, regardless of the anti-mother stance. Stupid cliches (the posh mum describing the difference between a caramel latte and a babycino....unfunny, unimaginative, boring cliche character) and the "oh so clever" point about her being a child of her mother so therefore could use the P&C space, blah blah blah zzzzssss.

Also, all trains have Quiet Carriages. Presumably they are the ones you can sit if you are grumpy and don't want to be reminded of the existence of other people. So that was a boringly lazy element to the article too.

All in all, shit Bindel. 0/5 !!

She is awful.

Its not exactly supportive to women this article is it? I agree with the poster who said that being right seems to trump actually doing the things she puports to stand for, like standing up for women. So because she doesn't have kids, women who do should ensure that theirs are kept out of the way because she doesn't like them.

She is the exact kind of woman that anti-feminists point to when they are trying to argue that feminism is a terrible thing. No thanks.

I can't see the problem with the concept of child free areas. I'm a mother to 3 but don't always travel with them, other people's kids can be quite annoying.

Plus, I'd rather not worry about other people's annoyance with my kids when we are travelling, if there were child friendly carriages, I wouldn't have to worry about that. Also, I'd be guaranteed to find other kids in there for mine to interact with to keep them entertained.

Also, they successfully have these on some trains in Norway and they have child friendly facilities in them, sounds great to me.

Ok, you might not like everything that she says and she can be very anti "breeders" but I think child free and child friendly spaces on trains and planes is a really good idea.

A very pro-trans-rights acquaintance expressed her deep disappointment in Bindel and other political lesbian separatists when their anti-trans stance came out. My reaction was that if somebody basically regards 50% of the human race as the enemy and 90% of the other half as collaborators then why on earth are you surprised when she takes against another group of people who you happen to like? This article gets the same reaction from me.

She is the exact kind of woman that anti-feminists point to when they are trying to argue that feminism is a terrible thing. No thanks

She has sensible things to say about porn and prostitution (they are not jobs like any other and should never be normalised) but I think the fact it is her who is saying them is not helpful to promoting that view.

She has sensible things to say about the Syrian refugee crisis as well, and the impact it is having on women left behind in the camps.

Surely quiet carriages already exist? I am really shocked and disappointed in la Bindel whose work I had always admired before. Its just really nasty - so full of hate. What happened to Sisterhood is Powerful?

????So disappointed to read that - I don't believe any of the incidents she describes happened and it is a load of cheap, nasty spite, reducing everyone to a caricature. I can get more informed, coherent opinions listening to some lovely teens on my local buses.

Quiet carriages exist, both Standard and First Class.

It's such a rubbish article- the nonsense about not getting a space in a supermarket car park for example.

Other than say just before Christmas when supermarkets are heaving for everyone is this a real problem for anyone? You have to walk a few more metres from your car to the shop?

Oh dear. Middle class mothers and their children have been causing problems in Starbucks for poor Julie since 2004.

She's London based? Who knew there is such a dearth of coffee distribution establishments there that Julie is forced to patronise Starbucks?

So not just a crap article but recycled crap. Love the " paying my taxes to support other people's children" line in the 2004 version.

It's a family affairwww.theguardian.com/theguardian/2004/feb/07/weekend7.weekend?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Interesting article Lass, yet even in 2004 the Victorian style orphanages she espouses didn't exist!

those of you accusing julie bindel of being a lesbian separatist have obviously never met an actual separatist.....
Now I get it, you can't have a poke at someone for being a dyke, bur 'separatist' means the wrong sort of lesbian, just as TERF means the wrong sort of feminist. actually Julie isn't quite radical enough for me, although I admire her stance on trans and political lesbianism. try Mary Daly if you want really radical. plus I was on a cross-country train yesterday and they have removed their quiet coaches. screaming kids and badly behaved dogs and wrinkles blocking the aisle with enormous cases nearly enough to persuade me to move to first class except the passengers there are worse
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This thread isn't about Julie Bindel's stance on trans issues and political lesbanism though, is it?

Nobody who claims to be a feminist should be writing an article which is shaming mothers (because it is mainly still mothers who do this) for daring to go out in public with their kids.

"wrinkles"
Are you using that term to refer to old people?

Anyway the point is, for a feminist, Julie Bindel dislikes most women.

Maybe we should ask MNHQ to invite her on for a web chat.

...and wrinkles blocking the aisle with enormous cases...

Are we banning old people from public transport now as well? Oh dear.

If people want to discuss who's the worst on trains, screaming children are way down the list of annoyances. And I can't say I've seen many badly behaved dogs either.

On the other hand, I've had plenty of bad experiences with adults. Stag and Hen parties are a particular delight. On one memorably awful train journey my son and I were stuck in a busy corridor while a foul mouthed drunk rampaged around made everyone else's trip thoroughly miserable. The train was overcrowded so no escape. No train guard or ticket inspector to complain to - I guess they were hiding. At one point this delightful individual locked himself in the toilet and started swearing and screaming at the top of his lungs while kicking the door down.

Anyway, the point of that rambling anecdote was that a) children, dogs and old people (what on earth have they done wrong by the way) are way, way down on the 'being a nuisance in public' list and b) by far the worst behaviour comes from other adults.

wrinkles blocking the aisle with enormous cases

I'm sure you'll find it's not just OAPs who have to travel with luggage...

When I first read one of her anti mother articles, it did make me rethink her transgender stance.

Her whole women shouldn't have kids argument is such a denial of biological reality that I wonder what her motivation in being opposed to transgender issues can possibly be.

Blimey! She’s not saying she doesn’t want mothers and children allowed in public spaces, she’s saying she’d like child-free areas such as a train carriage or a flight. Not all trains, not all flights, just an option. It’s a bit of a tongue-in-cheek, rant. She’s talking about those types of parents who think their child is the messiah and don’t take responsibility for their behaviour when they are kicking the back of your seat etc.

Questioning her feminism over this is laughable but if we are judging women’s feminism then comments like ‘desperately plain-looking, bonkers-left’ is somewhat anti-feminist as is using ‘lesbian separatist’ as a slur - as Somedyke pointed out, Julie Bindel is not separatist.

Anyway, she was on todays PM on Radio4 talking about child free flights where she perhaps explains herself a little better.

She's talked about this kind of stuff multiple times.

She's also talked about why she doesn't agree with maternity pay.

That piece is full of fictional anecdotes.

Especially the part when she complains that she can't park at a supermarket because the only spaces left are the many Parent & Child spaces.

I mean, clearly, that never happened

"I'm sure you'll find it's not just OAPs who have to travel with luggage..."
I think some here have had a sense of humour transplant.......... and need an irony metre installing.................

Julie Binder isn't a separatist as far as I know and isn't anywhere near the most radical lesbian compared to women I have met (or even myself to be frank). So please stop using separatist etc as an insult when you've probably never met one in real life..................

O and wrinkly was a term used by my dad to describe himself and his contemporaries, affectionate and accurate and I`ll soon be proud to be one myself! probably still only a baggy and saggy rather than a wrinkly!

Yes, I see it now. Anyone who didn't like the article and or/objects to the content just doesn't have a sense of humour. Ok. Nothing to do with it being badly written clickbait.