Wearing a hijab in Iran

[CanadianJohn]

Top women chess players are threatening to boycott the world championship in Iran because they will be forced to wear hijabs.

Female Grandmasters will risk arrest if they do not cover up to compete in the strict Middle Eastern country due to host the knock-out tournament next year.

There is a variety of opinion:

• when in Rome, do as the Romans do
• if you don't like it, don't go
• complain to the governing body (FIDE)

I'm wondering what posters on this board think.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3814137/World-chess-uproar-women-told-play-year-s-world-championships-Iran-wearing-hijabs.html#ixzz4LiUB7wzz

I think it's an outrage that the chess tournament is being held there.

Utterly incredible that these brilliant players are being discriminated against.

A poster on here was told by the police to adjust her headcovering when it slipped and showed part of her head. Please give an example of a UK rule against female freedom that even tickles the toenails of that humdinger.

We know are pretending that France and Iran are equivalent on repression of women?

Is that for real?

I felt much more comfortable wearing my headscarf in Iran (which was slipping back but noone objected) than I did in school pe lessons when we were forced to wear skin tight leotards and leggings for dance.You get plenty of reports on here of girls not being allowed to wear trousers for school. There was the women who was sent home recently from work for not wearing heels. The fact that 'no makeup selfies' were a thing makes me feel like the odd one out for never wearing makeup - I appreciate that I do have the choice, and have made this choice, but that doesn't mean the expectation isn't there.

And this is a bit different, but if you are looking for something equivalent to being asked to adjust a headscarf, then I think being asked to cover up or go somewhere private while breastfeeding is quite close, and does happen a lot here.

I'm not saying they're equivalent, but I'm saying it's a sliding scale rather than a black and white issue, and we are a long way from the 'good' end of the scale. We can't say 'these competitions should not be held in misogynistic societies' because pretty much everywhere is to some extent. And I don't think Iran is too bad as these things go.

Hairy - those pictures, that article, it's scary - clearly pointing out that those are women just like us, who are not freely choosing to wear a scarf, but are being forced.

And also a big YES on your point that it's not a cultural norm, but a sexist norm, as men are not required to do any such thing - and the cultural norms for men (eg. circumcision) aren't enforced by law, unlike women's dress code.

And of course it's different to France - yes, I'm a Brit, so forcing anyone to wear (or not wear) anything is against my culture, but a couple of towns in France declaring that women on the beach can't wear one specific type of swimming costume (and being swiftly condemned by the French Government) isn't the same as arresting any woman who doesn't cover her hair.

I have no general problem with headscarves, I wear hats, I live in the med but am pale, so I generally cover my arms and legs, and I would cover up when going into a religious building, but that's by choice.

Making it an offence not to is what makes this sex discrimination, and therefore unsupportable.

Oh please.there is no equivalence and it's just an excuse not to condemn this move

Fluffy - I've lived a lot of places, and really, REALLY, the UK is a bastion of uncare when it comes to how people dress. We like to beat ourselves up, but really, we're a very free and accepting society.

I've lived in more liberal muslim countries, where it was a choice to wear a hijab (well, family pressures aside) - some muslim girls did, some didn't (although it was part of the school uniform for the school opposite - for secondary age muslim girls) - and no non-muslims were expected to.

I've lived in very mixed countries - where there were muslim girls modestly dressed, next to ethnic Chinese girls in short-shorts and vests, that was a choice on both their parts (yes, there will be family pressures) - there was judgement from both sides, but they rubbed along.

Iran is not that. IT IS AGAINST THE LAW FOR WOMEN NOT TO COVER. How is that not oppression?

Iran has one of the worst human rights records in the world, it arbitrarily arrests westerners- eg Nazanin ratcliffe, and now insists women in this tournament cover up.

And this is like being told to go somewhere while breastfeeding in the uk (which never happened to me- and there's outcry when it does)

You are making a staggering comparison/defence of misogyny.
Why?

To me it feels like everyone else is defending/denying the misogyny that happens here, and that seems quite at odds with the general tone of this board.

I accept misogyny happens here.

I think the oppression of women in Iran is worse.

Do you agree or no?

I've heard it all now. Breastfeeding rights are enshrined in law. If some arsehole takes issue with the sight of a breast in the context of feeding a child, then it's the arsehole the police are interested in, not the breast.

No makeup selfies? Is this a joke? You think there's a genuine comparison to make between a culture which forces women, by law, to cover a non sexual part of their bodies, and no makeup selfies?

Everybody hated PE.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make, or why.

Of course sexism exists in the UK. As does racism. We still managed sanctions against countries that are, you know, worse.

Plus has anyone looked at the list of places which have held this recently? They may not quite have the same approach to women but for the most part they are a long way from bastions of human rights.

It's like gay rights: how can anyone in the uk complain that homosexuality is criminalised in Iran when my mate Paul was called 'gay boy' at school.

Exactly the same, isn't it soft?

Thanks for sharing those pics, Hairy. They are incredibly powerful and have helped me form my consideration of this topic. I had been going with the 'cultural norm' argument until you posted them. How wrong I was...

For your info too, it wasn't just 'men telling women what to wear' in France. Lots of people in favour of burkha and burkhini bans are women. Lots and lots. It's a cultural, secular thing, and in France, a nationalist protectionism thing.

France oppresses women less than Iran.

That doesn't stop this quote from being bullshit apoligism for a disgustingly racist and misogynistic bylaw.

"nationalist protectionism"

What the fuck is that even supposed to mean?

It's weird how just seeing other women shrouded from head to toe, or even just covered by a scarf can seem so removed from our own lives that we can perceive them as alien from us, as if we couldn't possibly ever relate to each other, that the cultural divide is too vast. It makes it easier to disengage and imagine they are OK with their lot in life, it's what they are used to, their culture. They are a different type of woman from me, different culture, mustn't judge. They might even like it.

It is a kick in the guts to see those pictures and think - my god, they look like any other seventies women I or my mum might have known. They look like us. They ARE like us. How would British women react if things changed overnight and suddenly the laws removed a freedom and imposed a restriction on us for 40 long years? If we marched in our hundreds of thousands and it didn't work? If people visited our country, and instead of protesting our inhumane treatment, they accepted the unfairness and cast it away at the airport gate upon returning to their own freedoms. It seems inconceivable. It isn't though, is it?

Ok, I'm not going to click on a DM article, but it seems to have omitted another salient point, which the articles I read in the telegraph and guardian yesterday on this issue did not.
Wearing an hijab is the least of their worries. Women are not allowed to be in a room with a man unless chaperoned by their husband, father, or brother. That is far more of an issue, particularly for younger GMs who aren't married.

The head of women's chess at FIDE said it's fine to wear the hijab, because FIDE has provided some "really lovely scarves in beautiful colours"

My DD suggested that as she is too young to a) cover, b) travel without a parent she could go, and have a chance at winning!

Those photos are astonishing. Absolutely brilliant.

It means protecting their secular culture.

I'm not in favour of a burkha ban, because, you know, we're a normal country where we don't do that sort of thing. But I'm in favour of a face-covering ban in all public services and in favour of a law that says it's not discrimination not to give someone a public facing job if they cover their faces. Because it's a cultural norm and a GOOD cultural norm that women don't cover. I'm not into any moral relativism about what 'good' means here.

It's not a disgusting and misogynistic bye-law - it's aim is to protect French women and culture from normalising the oppression that it is up to women
to forestall the sexual urges of men. Which really, really, shouldn't need saying. But apparently, for some people, it does.

No country is perfect but is soft fluffy towel seriously trying to suggest there is equivalence between the uk and France and Iran with respect to women's rights?
I know it's Friday but it's still a bit early to be pissed, isn't it?

ah the joys of cultural relativism on a Friday night
I'm off to the pub

www.girlsnotbrides.org/child-marriage/iran/

the legal age of marriage in Iran is 13 for girls
girls below 13 and boys below 15 can be married with the consent of their father or the permission of a court judge.
According to Iran’s Association of Children’s Rights, the number of girls married in Iran under the age of 15 went from 33,383 in 2006 to 43,459 in 2009, a 30% increase in three years. This is due to deepening poverty and parents’ desire to control their daughter’s sexuality.

minimum age for marriage is 9

Yeah, seems perfectly reasonable to host the world chess tournament there and make the women wear scarves to show respect to this culture.
Or perhaps we could sanction the Iranian government for their horrific abuses of the rights of females and girls instead.

Either or.

You wouldn't be able to do that in Iran winchesterwoman
I'll just add that to my very long list of reasons never to go near the place

it's aim is to protect French women and culture from normalising the oppression

Funny how this great concern for women coincided with a rise in far right politics eh? Thank god they have our back.