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Original poster

Consquences of self-identification

1000 replies

MrsKCastle · 17/09/2016 14:37

Sorry if this has already been done. I've been doing a lot of thinking about current trans thinking in the media.

As far as I understand it, this is the predominant view:
Anyone can be man or woman, male, female or neither. It doesn't depend on your genes, appearance or potential ability to hear young. What's important is how you identify. We should always treat people as they identify, with regard to how we speak about and treat them, and what spaces/roles we allow them to access.

What I'm interested in, is how this self-identification will or could change society. I'd love to hear your thoughts as I think it will help me to get things straight in my head.

So far I'm thinking:
No more single-sex schools
No more single-sex hospital wards
No more single-sex clubs, whether that's Brownies or exclusive golf clubs
Anyone can apply for any scholarship or award, regardless of sex

What else?

OP posts:
venusinscorpio · 29/09/2016 18:39

It's horrible. And it needs challenging in the strongest terms. It is "rapey logic" whatever pro trans virtue signallers might feel about that.

Felascloak · 29/09/2016 18:43

Are you saying that if we do have the surgery then we are accepted and that if we don't we aren't? (This is a trick question btw)
atm prior to all this self identification bollocks (and prior to being called a bigot in a group I was part of for saying I disn't think trans women and women were the same) I hadnt thought about it and would treat all trans women as women regardless of their genital status. I actually don't care what's in people's pants, it's rude to ask, and I also think we have no right to ask people to put themselves through risky surgery to "prove" they are a woman.

I think this position has been abused. Now I will state trans women are male, regardless of whether or not they've had surgery. I couldn't care less what you wear, what your name is, what pronouns you want to use, in fact I support all of that. I totally accept you and your right to live however you want.
But trans women aren't women. And I won't pretend they are any more. If that makes you feel I don't accept you, that's your problem not mine.

venusinscorpio · 29/09/2016 18:53

The goodwill from women has been massively abused. I agree I will no longer pretend I think transwomen are women. I won't misgender anyone directly, but that's the only concession I'll make.

Felascloak · 29/09/2016 18:55

Also have you read this by Becca Reilly-Cooper?
rebeccarc.com/2016/01/06/gender-is-not-a-binary/

Can I ask how you square being atheist and (presumably) not believing in souls with feeling that you have a female gender identity? Gender identity and soul seem quite similar concepts to me - both something that their owners believe they have but not backed up byour proof of their existence.

JedRambosteen · 29/09/2016 19:15

Still on p20 but couldn't let this pass unremarked:

I do feel that being convicted of a sex offense should prevent obtaining of a GRC - but I suspect some do-gooder will disagree with that

Given the ridiculously low conviction rate for reported rapes (~6%) in the UK and that many more go unreported, I take zero reassurance from the idea of sex offence convictions being the bar to entry. Try again...

WinchesterWoman · 29/09/2016 19:46

love this girl

I don't care, it's the Daily Mail but meh
she switched round all the boys and girls clothes in Tesco - and I do love her DM 'sad face' pic pointing at the pink sparkle I feel fabulous logo

WankingMonkey · 29/09/2016 20:03

We need more kids/people like her...

ErrolTheDragon · 29/09/2016 20:03

Even with the snide tone of the DM reporting, that's great.

CharlieSierra · 29/09/2016 22:00

Following on from the MTT in the loos at work which I posted about recently, I spoke to the head of HR today. We discussed the issues, including the legal position they are in, but she was shocked by some of the things I spoke about and wants me to talk to the rest of the ER team about it. i said I'd update, but I'm a bit wary of starting another thread.

WinchesterWoman · 29/09/2016 22:03

Oh my goodness Charlie well done! StarStarStaryou are so terrific!

WinchesterWoman · 29/09/2016 22:05

Was she shocked in the right way or shocked because you're such a vile transphobic transphobic
Good news?

venusinscorpio · 29/09/2016 22:06

Well done Charlie! That's brilliant.

singingsixpence82 · 29/09/2016 22:11

Wow Charlie, yes, fantastic!

CharlieSierra · 29/09/2016 22:13

She was shocked in the right way. I might need some input from you lot, I have to be measured when I talk to them and I have a tendency to be a tad passionate, shall we say. Grin

WinchesterWoman · 29/09/2016 22:15

How did you broach It? It must have been so difficult.

WinchesterWoman · 29/09/2016 22:17

Well done Charlie's HR as well. You know it's so lovely to have some good news.

Perhaps this cruise liner can be turned round after all.

titchy · 29/09/2016 22:17

Don't know if anyone's mentioned it before, but you know what, I don't believe that a lot of TAs are themselves actually trans... I think they actually regard themselves as men privately, but their hatred of women is so strong they get a kick out of publicly declaring themselves TW and using that to abuse women.

I guess they started out thinking 'Oh this'll be a laugh for a while till we get found out', but then people actually started to take them seriously.

Frightening no one sees through it. And frightening for those genuinely gender dysphoric who have inadvertently allowed the TAs to speak on their behalf.

venusinscorpio · 29/09/2016 22:20

I totally agree with you. I've said before I think a lot of them on social media are doing it for shits and giggles. Especially the "non binary" ones. Have your cake and eat it. We see you.

CharlieSierra · 29/09/2016 22:22

It was just a question of waiting for the right time. I've known her a long time, and she knows I'm a feminist. I just what about this then, she asked if anything had 'happened' and I said no, but you didn't tell us, and here are some of the reasons I have a problem with that. And then we had a talk about it for about an hour.

venusinscorpio · 29/09/2016 22:24

It's crystal clear how much many of these men really really hate women. Yet we're expected to smile and welcome them into our safe spaces at times when we're at our most vulnerable. I've experienced gaslighting in an abusive and coercive relationship, and this really feels very much the same.

venusinscorpio · 29/09/2016 22:26

It's great that you were able to discuss all your concerns with her and the default assumption wasn't that you were wrong and bigoted.

CharlieSierra · 29/09/2016 22:29

When I talk to the team I need to stick to the more practical implications I think, and probably not talk about how much some men hate women. And they are all much younger than me, similar in age to my children.

venusinscorpio · 29/09/2016 22:31

Yes definitely, I wasn't suggesting you should say that! I was responding to titchy.

CharlieSierra · 29/09/2016 22:34

Sorry Venus, I knew that, I was being self absorbed Blush

venusinscorpio · 29/09/2016 22:40

Haha no worries Smile

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