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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

I can hardly believe this but the science museum are working with gendered intelligence

101 replies

ageingrunner · 07/09/2016 15:43

genderedintelligence.co.uk/arts-projects/past

Can this be true?

OP posts:
fldsmdfr · 12/09/2016 11:59

Fucking hell.

I feel like if there had just been separate words for the act of intercourse and for the categories of male and female, so squeamish types hadn't started to use the word 'gender' when they meant sex, all this shit could have been avoided.

Lorelei76 · 12/09/2016 12:02

Fld, yes, many times I have no idea where the conversation is going because of people using "gender" meaning "sex".

ErrolTheDragon · 12/09/2016 12:30

Even MN ... on the profile page there's the choice of 'gender', Female or Male. FFS, on a site which has a Sex topic, which is primarily for parents ...we really don't need 'gender' as a coy euphemism so WTF doesn't it say 'Sex' ? Maybe if they got some complaints about this being non-inclusive from some of the genderqueer types who think 'gender' requires scores of options they might reconsider.... Hmm

WinchesterWoman · 12/09/2016 13:21

Yes to the gender/sex! Some kids' group, when confronted on allowing boys (transgirls) and girls to share on away from home trips, said they had always segregated by gender and not sex - and there it was in black and white. But that's because prudes would prefer the word 'gender' to 'sex' back in the day - prudishness - not because of any transgender guff.

Bumbledumb · 12/09/2016 14:31

The use of the word gender has nothing to do with squeamishness or prudishness. The concept of gender as distinct from sex is rooted in and has been promoted by feminist theory since the 1970's.

fldsmdfr · 12/09/2016 14:37

But perhaps it would have stayed an obscure concept in feminist theory if people hadn't started using the word incorrectly. Although it would have been nice if the way feminism understood gender had become universally accepted.

It was a fairly flippant comment though.

MatildaOfTuscany · 12/09/2016 14:42

Except that's a massive oversimplification. We now have a single word, gender, with three distinct usages.

  1. as it has always been used as a technical term in the social sciences, meaning culturally and socially sanctioned roles and activities deemed appropriate for one sex or the other.

  2. as a coy euphemism for biological sex, because the word sex has two meanings too, meaning whether you are XX or XY, or pertaining to the act of getting jiggy with someone, and the latter is enough to make some people a bit iffy about saying "my sex is female/male".

  3. more recently as an internal feeling which some people say they have and some people say they don't experience - bit like the mind-body problem, or having a soul, or having religious faith.

A large part of the reason we're in this mess is because people keep conflating 1, 2 and 3.

WinchesterWoman · 12/09/2016 14:44

Bumble: it has not stopped the use of 'gender' where the meaning is ' sex. '

Lorelei76 · 12/09/2016 19:20

Winchester "Yes to the gender/sex! Some kids' group, when confronted on allowing boys (transgirls) and girls to share on away from home trips, said they had always segregated by gender and not sex"

I actually don't even understand what they mean by that.

My head hurts.

WinchesterWoman · 12/09/2016 19:23

Lorelei: Rulebook (scouts?) set down years ago says tents must be segregated by gender. Because they didn't want the word 'sex' in the rule book I guess.

Transgirl (i.e. boy) wants to go in girl tent. Scouts (?) agree.

Complaints follow that tents should be segregated by sex.

No say the scouts - we've always segregated by gender.

When in fact they had never in the past segregated by gender identity - they'd just used the word gender because they didn't want to say 'sex'.

Bumbledumb · 12/09/2016 19:41

Winchester "Yes to the gender/sex! Some kids' group, when confronted on allowing boys (transgirls) and girls to share on away from home trips, said they had always segregated by gender and not sex"

I actually don't even understand what they mean by that.

I guess it means that they segregated them based on how they looked, acted and self-identified, rather than have them strip and subject them to a vaginal exam to be sure they had female biology.

WinchesterWoman · 12/09/2016 20:50
Hmm
Lorelei76 · 12/09/2016 21:54

Thanks Winchester - it's a pointless argument for anyone to try to hijack - is that what people are doing - because it's clear they mean they were segregating on the basis of biological sex.

EmpressKnowsWhereHerTowelIs · 14/09/2016 14:38

The Science Museum seem to be getting the message.

ErrolTheDragon · 14/09/2016 14:49

Lets hope they get back on track with science not further away with the trendy transgender agenda.

Anyway, good to see they (and the guardian) have noticed at last ... seems this thing has been lurking for a long time?

ErrolTheDragon · 14/09/2016 14:52

The comments on the guardian piece, as far as I could be bothered to read them, were a predictable mix. But among them was buried a reference which looks worth reading - I've not had time yet - entitled 'The Gender Similarities Hypothesis'

www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/amp-606581.pdf

MostlyHet · 14/09/2016 14:54

Not sure they have got the message, Empress - seems like the classic non-apology apology to me. Mentions increased sensitivity to trans issues, but no mention of the the understandable sensitivity women may feel in having "brain sex" foisted on us as a pseudo science, no mention of the issues for women in pushing stereotypes about how male and female brains "work", no mention of the long history (phrenology onwards) of finding spurious or minor differences and turning it into a whole elaborate theory to justify treating women differently in education, employment, STEM subjects and the like. Just a coy "but you were supposed to realise it was tongue in cheek, like the Fast Show's Women: Know your place sketches."

EmpressKnowsWhereHerTowelIs · 14/09/2016 14:58

I'm probably being a bit too optimistic. Hmm

mollie123 · 14/09/2016 15:10

from gendered intelligence website (curious what else they were up to so had a look)
In June 2016, Gendered Intelligence is working with The Corpse Project to explore what happens to the body after death, and specifically how the trans or gender variant body is treated.
now I have to ask why when a body is dead is the gender relevant ? dead is dead a mere shell and no 'feeling like the opposite gender' is involved Hmm

Lorelei76 · 14/09/2016 15:21

if it's aimed at kids, the tongue in cheek thing is pathetic

WinchesterWoman · 15/09/2016 05:29

Some of the Guardian commenters use the socialisation of the brain as a justification for the male/female brain theory.

They reach an entirely different moral conclusion from the same set of facts. Theirs is that yes, women must accept they have a female brain because they've already accepted the principle of socialisation. Instead of thinking: that means there's some thing wrong with the socialisation.

The feminist academics here are phenomenal.

ErrolTheDragon · 15/09/2016 07:27

Yes - pink brain/blue brain notion underlies many stereotype threats (tell girls that maths is a boy thing and they will underperform at maths) ... Vicious circle.

Xenophile · 15/09/2016 12:27

Interestingly, it turns out that the two people who founded GI have no scientific background whatsoever. No member of the board has a science background and there is only one person on the team who has.

Everyone else is either from a theatre or marketing background.

The fact that the Science Museum saw fit to present an anti-science exhibit makes it look more than slightly ridiculous.

Lorelei76 · 15/09/2016 16:52

Xenophile - that's interesting.

I wonder if a gallery will give me a role as curator....!!!!!!!!!