** Trigger Warning** Child Death. Title altered by Mumsnet. **Student given life in prison with no parole for dumping her baby.

[FrameyMcFrame]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/college-student-gave-birth-toilet-8705537
This U.S student has been given life without parole for giving birth and dumping the baby, who subsequently died.
I feel incredibly sorry for her, and angry that men never have to go through this sort of terrible ordeal. In no way do I condone what she did, but I think the way society is set up makes things like this happen. If things were easier for women undergoing unplanned pregnancy and stigmas were removed, tragic things like this just wouldn't happen. Why should this person have to suffer for the rest of her life, she's literally just a kid herself.

[Eatthecake]

Absouletly NOTHING can excuse putting a newborn in a bag to suffocate!

It makes me feel sick just thinking about it.

She deserves to be in prison, That little baby was killed by its own mother in what I imagine was a bloody awful way to die.

She had choices, but the choice she made was to kill that child.

I just hope that baby is at peace now RIP little Addison

[AndYourBirdCanSing]

I agree with your post Basil

[IrenetheQuaint]

Probably the main aim of prison is public protection. Does anyone really think that this young woman is a danger to anyone outside? What purpose does keeping her in prison, at vast public expense, actually serve?

A short prison sentence with lots of support and counselling would be much more appropriate and better for all involved. I loathe the kneejerk desire to punish for punishment's sake.

[SenecaFalls]

I agree with Lass that the university is not at fault here. The university health service did make several attempts to contact her after her positive pregnancy test. As she was an adult, the health service could not legally inform anyone else about her condition.

[Eatthecake]

A short prison sentence? She killed a baby it suffocated in a bag in a bin like a piece of rubbish but she should be given counselling and a short sentence and allowed to walk free.

[JillyTheDependableBoot]

Totally agree with Basil. Regardless of the apparent situation, abortion is only easy to access if it's stripped of guilt and judgement. You can say what you like about this young woman's access to contraception and MAP: however good that was, it either wasn't used or didn't work. I imagine she was in denial for weeks, until after the window of opportunity for an abortion had closed, and then continued to be after that. Of course what she did was wrong and tragic, but the sentence is appalling.

[MyCatIsSparticus]

the western world they already have access to free, confidential contraception, abortions, and adoptions.

That shows a surprising lack of knowledge about abortion and contraception in the 'western world' for someone who presumably lives here.

[WellErrr]

That shows a surprising lack of knowledge about abortion and contraception in the 'western world' for someone who presumably lives here

The woman in question had access to the above.
Most women in the UK have access to the above, and even where women can't access abortions contraception and adoption is free.

So yes, for the purposes of this discussion my statement was correct.

I'm not going to use this monster as a reason to highlight where services are lacking, as it wasn't the case for her.

[PersianCatLady]

If this had happened in the UK it is very unlikely that the woman would have even been given a custodial sentence at all as she would most likely have been subject to a treatment or a hospital order.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

The sentence , in my opinion, is too harsh.
If she were in the UK it is likely she would have been charged under the Infanticide Acts. England and Wales have their own Act as does Northern Ireland; Scotland deals with it as a Common law crime.

Infanticide is committed by a woman who kills her child under the age of 12 months when the balance of her mind is disturbed - either because she has not fully recovered from childbirth or because of the effect of lactation. Not all killing of infants will therefore be infanticide.

If the Crown pursues a charge of infanticide in theory the sentence can be life in prison but a custodial sentence is rare. A hospital or supervision order would be imposed.

A recent English case under the abortion legislation resulted in a 2 and half year sentence for illegally procuring an abortion at 29 weeks. The court was satisfied the baby was still born.

If a UK courts were not satisfied she met the criteria for infanticide then sentencing would proceed as per murder (or possibly manslaughter/ culpable homicide) Murder carries a mandatory life sentence but the judge must set the minimum period before parole can be considered. A whole life term is very rare.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

If this had happened in the UK it is very unlikely that the woman would have even been given a custodial sentence at all as she would most likely have been subject to a treatment or a hospital order

Not necessarily. Her attempts to conceal the pregnancy and to procure an an illegal abortion may count against a determination that it was her state of mind following childbirth which caused her to do this.

[EttaJ]

Excellent news. She murdered her baby. Save your sympathy for the poor child whose life was snuffed out horribly by the person supposed to protect her, to die for her not kill her. Cold ,calculating and evil bitch.

[PersianCatLady]

Not necessarily
That is why I said very unlikely

Once the partial defence of infanticide has been claimed by a defendant who is facing a charge of murder or manslaughter the burden of proof is on the prosecution to disprove a claim of infanticide beyond a reasonable doubt.

In such cases it is quite often very hard to disprove the claim of infanticide beyond all reasonable doubt so a lot of the time the prosecution are willing to accept the claim of infanticide as long as a sufficient hospital or treatment order is in place.

[Oblomov16]

I don't think it's a feminist issue either. She could have taken baby to haven but chose to kill in a bin bag. That requires a prison sentence.
But for how long? A long time? Yes, but not indefinitely.

[Oblomov16]

In the US, life really does mean 'life'? No parol. No. That's not ok for this particular crime.

[Notheretofight]

I do think to a certain extent the supposed father of the child is culpable. Whenever I read stories of horrific child abuse which have resulted in the death of a child my first thought is always where was the father? It would only take a few visits a month to determine that something was seriously wrong with the child's care.

In this case it seems like the supposed father did know she was pregnant. He didnt react with shock to her text that the baby was gone and automatically asked her how she killed it. Why did he not challenge her worrying behaviour during the pregnancy? Why didn't he try to bring others attention to it? Did he know of her plan to kill the baby (his text I would like to know how you killed MY baby suggests that he expected her to have murdered it rather than give it up at a safe haven)?

At least what you can say is that there is neglect there and a failure to take on parental responsibility. He didn't know at the time the child was not his. He should have born the responsibility of at least monitoring it's care during pregnancy and taking action if it was dangerous. He should have discussed with her ways of safely ending the pregnancy or passing it on for adoption so that she didn't have to make these decisions on her own. But probably like some men he thought it wasn't his problem and walked away from even having to think of it. I think the court should take in to account the role of the nr fathers in child abuse cases and cases like this. If they had any idea it was happening and did nothing that is neglect and they should be punished for that.

[Notheretofight]

I just think if the university are having to cover their backs to show that they did try to help her why not the person who was the supposed father. He didn't know he wasn't the father at the time. Were there any discussions with her about what to do with THEIR baby? How far along the pregnancy did he find out? I just think as a society we need to be much harsher with men who do not take their parental responsibility seriously and seem to think the mother has more responsibility for the child's wellbeing and care.

[Grimarse]

In this particular case, what rights and responsibilities did the assumed father actually have? He cannot, quite rightly, tell the pregnant woman what to do, whether that be abortion, adoption, anonymously give the baby up or keep it. So until she gives birth, his role in this pregnancy is a minor one.

Are you just dragging him into this in some sad attempt to lay blame elsewhere? Because we could also question why the mother led him to believe that he was the father in the first place. As this thread is full of assumptions, shall we also assume that the mother knew that the baby might not be his, and yet did not tell him that she had had sex with someone else? Such supposition is pointless, but I thought I might join in.

I feel sorry for her. I don't know the first thing about her, but it is an awful thing to have done, and I assume it will be on her conscience forever. The American judicial system is appallingly inhuman though, so this sentence is not really surprising.

[Gothgirl78]

I've very little sympathy for her except life without parole is too long.

She was 21 not 12. Abortion is legal to 20 weeks. She killed her daughter.

I've no idea if she is mad or bad or a combination of both. People are rarely black or white.
I'm sure a lot of her fellow prisoners are both too. Just because she killed her baby and d not her mum or 3 year old daughter it doesn't mean she should go unpunished.

As for the father I don't know all of the details but perhaps he should have done more. Perhaps he thought she was lying? However he's not a culpable as she is.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

I just think if the university are having to cover their backs to show that they did try to help

I don't know how you have managed to put that spin on the university health care's role in this.

[avocadosweet]

I think the health centre could have done more. Yes, they made several attempts to contact her regarding her positive pregnancy test but in any of the outcomes to pregnancy she would need medical care. It seems many people suspected the pregnancy but only the health centre knew for sure. She lived on campus, they could have visited her.

[neonrainbow]

Some of you are keen to blame everyone but the woman involved. She is solely responsible for what she did. She started trying to harm her baby long before she gave birth so you can't blame the effects of childbirth. And from the story she didn't confirm to any of her peers that she was pregnant so why assume the man she thought was the father know she was a) pregnant and b) the baby could have been his if the first he knew of it was the text after the birth? Believe it or not women are capable of evil and a man is not always to blame.

[neonrainbow]

Or avocado this evil woman could have not killed her baby how about that?

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

There is a fair bit of what aboutery going on here.

At what point do you think an adult woman becomes responsible for her own actions? Or that external agents should intervene without being asked?

[paddypants13]

I imagine she is mentally ill despite her plea of insanity being thrown out and I have sympathy for her in that respect.

However, I do think the sentence is fait. Her friends tried to help her and I didn't see any report that she tried to access professional help.

I get that she was scared and in deep, deep denial but the baby was born alive and she murdered it.