** Trigger Warning** Child Death. Title altered by Mumsnet. **Student given life in prison with no parole for dumping her baby.

[FrameyMcFrame]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/college-student-gave-birth-toilet-8705537
This U.S student has been given life without parole for giving birth and dumping the baby, who subsequently died.
I feel incredibly sorry for her, and angry that men never have to go through this sort of terrible ordeal. In no way do I condone what she did, but I think the way society is set up makes things like this happen. If things were easier for women undergoing unplanned pregnancy and stigmas were removed, tragic things like this just wouldn't happen. Why should this person have to suffer for the rest of her life, she's literally just a kid herself.

[BarbarianMum]

If she'd murdered someone else's child I doubt many would question the length of the sentence. Not sure why it should be any different because she was her own.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

"You tried over and over to take that baby’s life," he said, referring to her reckless behaviour while pregnant. "

If this is how the state view foetuses, and women who are pregnant - that foetuses are babies and that careless behaviour by pregnant women (or deliberate abortion) is the same as killing a baby - then I can see how a person can feel they have nowhere to turn

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration too. There were places and options she could turn to whilst pregnant.

Also having read the fuller report I think the reference to what she did when she was pregnant was to refute her defence she didn't know she was pregnant. Why would you take abortifacients if you didn't think you were pregnant?

[YorkieDorkie]

If she'd put her 5yo child in a bag to suffocate then no one would dispute the sentence. I could weep for the poor baby. I feel sick thinking about my little baby upstairs in her cot and someone doing that to her who is supposed to protect her.

I hope she remembers this for the rest of her life.

[AskBasil]

"If a man smothered his newborn he too would be jailed."

FFS. Even the victorians knew that pregnancy and childbirth changed a woman's psyche and that in rare cases could lead to mad behaviour. That is why it was not murder, but infanticide, if a mother killed a new-born.

This happened in the USA, where there is a war on women. Under Ohio law this student would have been a minor when she got pregnant (under 21) and would have needed her parent's permission for an abortion if it was under 20 weeks (after is illegal).

There is no clue as to what her relationship was with her parents, how far along she was in the pregnancy etc. There is also no clue what mental health assessments she actually had.

I doubt that she should be in prison. But if she should, then life without parole is a more severe penalty than most men are given for rape and murder. Given the level of threat she is likely to present to the public versus that of rapists and murderers, this seems disproportionate.

[FrameyMcFrame]

Thanks AskBasil, I'm glad you put it so well and I agree entirely.

Maybe I should ask Mumsnet to remove this thread, I really don't want to upset people.

[FrameyMcFrame]

I'm not sure how to do that from my phone

[SenecaFalls]

I'm pretty sure that the age of majority in Ohio is 18, including the right to consent to an abortion.

[TendonQueen]

Very good post AskBasil. So actually she couldn't 'just' get an abortion. There is, rightly, much sympathy for pre- and postnatal depression sufferers but not, it seems, for this. Interesting to compare it to the university threads here where parents are often posting about how much support they give their children in higher education to do fairly basic things like write an essay. Yet something far more traumatic to get your head round apparently is just something this young woman should have dealt with on her own, as an adult..

[SenecaFalls]

As to Lass's question about how likely a pardon or commutation would be, that would depend on who the governor is, his/her political party, and what kind of person the convicted woman had become in the meantime.

The current governor's record as of 2014:
www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2014/06/kasich_rarely_grants_pardons_b.html

[TendonQueen]

OP - click on the three dots at the bottom of one of your posts, and it will bring up options - top one is 'report post'. Do that and0ask for deletion if you want.

[thisismyfirsttime]

I think the article is a bit sensationalist but I agree wholeheartedly that this woman deserves to be punished and also that this isn't a feminist issue. If she were a much younger girl who didn't realise she was pregnant or had an inkling but didn't have the maturity to deal with it and panicked at the point of giving birth I'd have some sympathy. This was a woman who took a positive pregnancy test, ignored contact regarding it and denied being pregnant despite being asked repeatedly about it. She took abortion inducing drugs (the article suggests she knew they would have this affect) and put the poor child in a bin bag and chucked it in the bin. Never mind safe haven laws, even if she'd put the baby on a neighbour's doorstep, left it on the street and called the police to it's location or done anything to abandon it without killing it she'd have sympathy. But she texted the dad (she thought) and lied to him.
I really think we shouldn't be campaigning for better care for women regarding their options based on this cunt. She had options and she chose not to take them.

[thisismyfirsttime]

*and she

[SenecaFalls]

To reiterate, she would not need parental consent for an abortion. Parental consent is required in Ohio for anyone younger than 18 (the age of majority in Ohio), with some exceptions that allow minors to get an abortion without parental consent.

www.womensmed.com/laws/new-ohio-abortion-law/#31

[BarbarianMum]

Prisons (both here and in the States) are full of people with mental health problems.

[eddiemairswife]

My impression is that US justice is all about punishment, with no thought given to rehabilitation. Hence offenders being given sentences of 99years. I think their reaction to people who commit crimes is like that of a child saying, "You are very naughty. and I am going to lock you up for ever and ever."

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Yet something far more traumatic to get your head round apparently is just something this young woman should have dealt with on her own, as an adult..

Well:-

(a) she was an adult. She was 20/21. Seneca has confirmed minority stops at 18 in Ohio, much the same as most of Europe (indeed parts of Europe, including Scotland allow 16 year olds to marry without parental consent) ; and
(b) she was on a university campus. Unless this campus was like no other campus in the western world there will have been any number of options available for pastoral care.

The sentence is too harsh but there is nothing logical in trying to mitigate her culpability.

[VestalVirgin]

The way the prosecutor argued, using her leading a normal life during pregnancy against her, smacks of misogyny.

I am rather sure the sentence reflects that attitude. As AskBasil pointed out, childbirth leads to an exceptional psychological state, and it is not fair to treat the killing of a newborn like murder.

The accused herself says she thought the baby was dead. That may have been wishful thinking, but there's no sign of violence against the baby, so it seems to have honestly been what she believed.

Considering how easy police officers who kill black people get away in the US, and rapists, and ... well, literally every male criminal (who isn't black), it is obvious that this young woman is treated unfairly.

She should be punished, of course. But there's little danger of her repeating this; she is remorseful, and she is certainly not a danger to the general public.
What will putting her in prison actually achieve? Put the fear of the government into all those young women who are, in cold blood, planning to murder their newborns immediately after birth? Please. It is not like this is a common crime, and it certainly isn't a planned one.

[VestalVirgin]

Uh, where does this look like lack of remorse:

""Words cannot express how sorry I am to my beautiful daughter Addison," she said. "I ask God for forgiveness, and today, all I can do is ask for all of yours.""

Did you read the same article I read? Oo

[Sparklesilverglitter]

She wouldn't of needed parental consent to an abortion, once over 18 years old in Ohio you don't need parental consent. She was 21!

She had options abortion, adoption or using a safe haven place without giving her identity, she choose not to do this.

Her choice was to put a live baby in a bin bag and let it suffocate, that was murder.

I really think we shouldn't be campaigning for better care for women regarding their options based on this cunt. She had options and she chose not to take them Yes to this

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

"Words cannot express how sorry I am to my beautiful daughter Addison," she said. "I ask God for forgiveness, and today, all I can do is ask for all of yours.""

It's of course impossible to tell not having been in the court how that came across but on paper it looks unconvincing.

If Amnesty were to take up her case I would support a campaign for a reduction in sentence but I cannot agree with the excuses some of you are making for her.

[mushroomsontoast]

I think the fact that she didn't choose any of those sensible options such as abortion, adoption, leaving the baby somewhere safe, suggests that she wasn't in a right frame of mind.

Also, if the university knew she was pregnant, why didn't they do more? It seems like several people knew, but nobody actually tried to help her.

[Pinkheart5915]

words cannot express how sorry I am to my beautiful daughter Addison," she said. "I ask God for forgiveness, and today, all I can do is ask for all of yours.""

I'm sorry but I'm not convinced that is remorse it's more likely the reaction of somebody that murdered there own child suddenly realising that they are about to spend the rest of there life in prison.

She put the child in a bag to suffocate in the bin, There is NOTHING that can excuse that, she made that choice and she belongs in prison for what she done because that is where a killer belongs

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

The university welfare centre knew she had a positive pregnancy test. They made several attempts to get in touch with her by various methods and she did not respond. What more do you think the health centre could or should have done ?

Would you like the health centre to pass on the confidential medical records of an adult to the academic staff? Or to her parents?