Breastfeeding and attachment parenting - your thoughts

[awfulpersonme]

I've not posted on this board before but have lurked a lot.

I'm interested to see what you think about two things I have thought about a lot in recent weeks - breastfeeding and attachment parenting.

I breastfeed my 5 month old and as such was on a few Facebook groups for support. On these groups I have seen comments stating that women who ff should not have children, that formula should only be available on prescription for babies who need it medically, and asking for tips on how to persuade their female friends and relatives to breastfeed their babies. These groups are largely AP based.

So:

1. Is pressurising women to breastfeed essentially anti feminist? Isn't it just another way of telling us what we should and shouldn't do with our bodies, another way of making female bodies public property?

2. aren't a lot of the attachment parenting principles essentially quite anti-woman? Every AP group I've seen seems to place a mother's need for outside stimulation, sleep, and good mental health as far, far below the needs of her children (at all ages, not just newborns and young babies). The idea that you must be around your baby 24/7 just seems to me to be another way of keeping women firmly "in their place".

What do you all think??

Philoslothy

Rabies is typically fatal, is what I mean. So to breastfeed your baby whilst you are dying...well...for me that is putting the mother's needs before the child's. The child needs to transition to the bottle before the mother's supply dwindles.

(I know, I know...I am sorry that you felt attacked on here...it is the notion of a rabid breastfeeder )

use of the "attachment/gentle/respectful/thoughtful" terms, rather than just a simple description of chosen/rejected practices, implies that other approaches are less good. That's wanky online and even more so IRL, as is flim flam about "AP" being supposedly easier / for "lazy" women.

Eg "I co-slept with DC, bfed until 2.5, did not sleep train".

This! This is what I experienced of the AP approach. "I could handle it, why can't everyone?"

But that's not what I, or sloth said - we said, that for us, this was the easiest route vs. the clean bottles out of the dishwasher route - that just as others didn't like (couldn't handle is too judgmental in my opinion) to breastfeed stuck to the settee, I didn't like to have to fill and run a dishwasher to keep clean bottles - the thought of having to do that would have made me cry, not the thought of sitting on the settee with a child attached

As Outself says above - different strokes for different folks.

Outs You are right that all parenting advice is guilt inducing rubbish. What object to about Sears is his emphasis of the 'natural' way in which tribal women look after their infants with biological rhythms that we western women have lost- colonial, feminist backlash bullshit. I find his tone extra patronising. He obviously hasn't really done any anthropological research into child rearing techniques across the world or he'd never make foolish comparisons like that.

I really object to any advice based on anecdotal evidence. And while people shouldn't need books or labels to make them feel better about their parenting there is a whole industry out there trying to milk new parents for their cash while making them feel like crap.

I'm going to write a free e-book. It will be called 'Do What Feels Right' and it will only contain one page.

I read an excellent book called the politics of breast feeding, which was a WHO sponsored piece of research, looking at bf practices in different cultural settings.

There was a strong feminist argument for FF which is it can give the necessity to feed the baby to the father, he will have to use his resources to feed the baby instead of the woman's bodily resources.

There are also strong feminist arguments for BF, eg. remaining independent of male support or not becoming dependent on some really dodgy commercial operations (Nestle, anyone?). Also it makes very visible the importance of the mother.

To me, it's not what you specifically do that is feminist or not in this context. It's how you relate to other women. The patriarchy doesn't win if we all bf or if we all ff - it wins when we turn on each other, participate in the public policing of womanhood, participate in the disempowerment and isolation of other women. It wins when we make parenting decisions in service of everyone else but ourselves. It wins when women are sitting alone at home, feeling like a failure as a woman and the only person we have to talk to about that is our male partner. It wins when immediately assume that the woman feeding in another way to us is doing that because she is ignorant or uninformed, or lacks backbone or whatever.

We'd all do really well to assume that other women have made the very best feeding decision possible for a person in her circumstances.

I bfed DC, one until nearly age 3, but IME there is very little "us" in bfeeding, it can be a LOT for the mother. And my DH shares domestics and childcare.

Well, there is plenty to object to in the get your baby into a routine pov, too, isn't there Cosmic? They all use batshit arguments, like your baby will not achieve independence and your marriage will end if you do night feeds after 4mo. The point is not the argument but the way that it is used to police women. Sears is no fucking different from any of those fuckers.

I strongly object on feminist terms to the idea of the 'marital bed'. See the Daily Fail for endless discussions about how the poor man had to have an affair because his DW wasn't meeting his sexual needs while she looked after her newborn. There is plenty of put your man first bullshit in the routine brigade and it is highly anti woman.

Ah the old "I'm lazy really" chestnut!

Why do that? Why can't we just say that I am glad that you have found a way to cope - which is what I have done. I haven't claimed it is best. I haven't claimed to be a supermum. I have just said that I have found that these particular tools work for me in my situation and with my personality type and limitations.

You don't need to justify your choices.

Why, pp, do you suppose I didn't have it in me to even turn on the telly or drive to the nearest town to buy chocolate

Because you are probably not as lazy as me.

No dear, major depression. Because the AP approach I had been taking at the time lead to it. And if I hate breastfeeding, doing ebf for five months is a funny way to show it. That is why I now think AP is not a feminist stance.

Outs This is what I'm trying to say. I'm no proponent of Gina Ford or the routine method. Each family needs to do what is right for them. The issue comes when people divide themselves into strict camps and say their way is best. Yes, it worked for you but it may not work for me. Some people are very literal about these pronouncements and become defensive when questioned, as this thread shows.

What is especially don't like about AP as it is advertised by Sears is the idea that western women have somehow lost the ability to be good mothers and they need him to tell them how. The language used to frame this debate leads credulous people to think their way is the only natural way to parent.

Have you listened to the podcast? That poor woman has toiled away at AP because she was told it was the best way for her. The shock in her voice when she is told AP is based on unproven ideas is pretty horrific.

She won't be the only one to be fooled by Dr. Bill.

I also agree that the term marital bed is unhelpful. But the world is not a Routine vs AP place where you have to choose one or the other. Both methods are damaging and unhelpful in the wrong circumstances. Women shouldn't have to put the needs of their partners and children before their own all the time.

What I think is anti- feminist and damaging about AP is precisely that it presents itself as the more female friendly option. A wolf in sheep's clothing. When people fail at AP they kind of feel like they failed at being natural mothers.

Cosmiccreepers203 I'm going to write a free e-book. It will be called 'Do What Feels Right' and it will only contain one page.

I did suggest this here on this board, but...tumbleweed...the post is from a few weeks back...let me know if you are still keen to do this...

(Not the same title nor book structure, but coming from a similar place.)

I heard a great phrase on here a while back and I can't remember which poster said it, but it was 'the tyranny of the should's'

Breast feeding is great. Any woman who wants to BF should be supported. But at soon as we move from 'I want to do this, it's hard can I get some help? ' to 'I feel like I should do this, it's hard, I do t want to but I feel like I should' then we have a problem.
BF or ff or mix feed choices can be the right choice. The statistics that breast is best look at the population as a whole. What suits the individual mother/baby dyad may be something different.
My one regret is not carrying on with mix feeding when I finally cracked BF. Ds now won't take a bottle and that means I can't be away from him. He sleeps very poorly and it's had a big impact on me mentally and physically. His dad is involved and pulls his weight, but because Ds won't take a bottle, and wakes every half hour, I'm s mess.

I think a lot of the AP methods can be used as a stick to beat women with. most parents are attached and responsive to their child - the list above is what I'd consider all parents do anyway.
But what does 'feed with love and respect mean? isn't a cuddle and a bottle loving?
Safe sleep can be a cot or your bed.

As soon as we move from 'we do this because it suits us and works' to 'you should...' We are in trouble.

53rd and bird

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but can you clarify what "feed with love and respect" means?

Sorry breastfeeding support is very very feminist. I'm a rad fem and a breastfeeding counsellor. Supporting women to met their own breastfeeding goals and to use there bodies in the way they want is a feminist act. Taking back the means of production of food for our babies is feminist, being in charge of all of our reproductive systems is a feminist act ( breastfeeding forms part of reproduction)

Attachment partenting can be really feminist too. But only if we chose to value the work of mother and parenting when it doesn't contribute to the GDP

Yes, again it's the use of vague terms like "with love and respect" that imply other methods are less loving or respectful.

Who pays for all the bottle feeding equipment (and the dishwasher ), and for the formula when the baby arrives?

Genuine question, does £20/£13 per week CB cover the cost of formula and the electricity needed to heat water for washing and making up bottles? It may seem like pennies to those who can afford even 'ordinary' dishwashers but these costs all add up.

One of the reasons I chose to BF is because I didn't want to be in a position where we had to choose to buy formula over food for us, or putting money in the gas meter. If BF hadn't worked out, I'm sure my husband and I would have worked out a way of stretching his wage, but I would have been even more reliant on him.

Having a baby means relying on the help of others for at least some things. It is possible to raise a baby entirely alone, but I'm not sure that's the feminist alternative.

If one is breastfed with fear or reluctance, then this can really fuck one up.

#justsayin

Sorry breastfeeding support is very very feminist.

It is.

However. It most certainly is NOT when a woman says "Breastfeeding is contributing to my pnd. I'd like to mix feed" and bfeeding supporters bang on and on about the dangers of formula and bla bla bla.

I am not talking about when a woman has been told she needs to mix feed when she obviously doesn't. I am talking about when she wants to mix feed. Wants to.

And of course many women with babies and toddlers WANT to contribute to GDP.

I was lucky to have good maternity leave/pay and the option to work PT so returned when DC were over one.

hubble has articulated this brilliantly. Many posters seem to think I'm having a dig at breastfeeding. I'm not. I'm not talking about women who need support.

I'm talking about women who do not want to breastfeed, or who want to stop.

ICJump breastfeeding support is feminist. Agree completely. If a woman wants to breastfeed and is struggling they should have access to much better support. I struggled, the support was shit.
The problem is when a woman doesn't want to breastfeed and is made to feel like a failure, or a bad mum. I gave Ds a few bottles of formula because he was hungry and I was going half crazy with tiredness. Being able to have a break to let me recover helped me carry on BF. But the judgement I got on a parenting FB page was astounding. Apparently a few bottles of formula was akin to feeding him puréed McDonald's mixed with crack...
Women's choices should be supported, whether that choice is breast, formula or a mix. There's not enough good BF support. And there's far too much judgement on those who can't or don't want to BF. That too is a feminist issue.