Breastfeeding and attachment parenting - your thoughts

[awfulpersonme]

I've not posted on this board before but have lurked a lot.

I'm interested to see what you think about two things I have thought about a lot in recent weeks - breastfeeding and attachment parenting.

I breastfeed my 5 month old and as such was on a few Facebook groups for support. On these groups I have seen comments stating that women who ff should not have children, that formula should only be available on prescription for babies who need it medically, and asking for tips on how to persuade their female friends and relatives to breastfeed their babies. These groups are largely AP based.

So:

1. Is pressurising women to breastfeed essentially anti feminist? Isn't it just another way of telling us what we should and shouldn't do with our bodies, another way of making female bodies public property?

2. aren't a lot of the attachment parenting principles essentially quite anti-woman? Every AP group I've seen seems to place a mother's need for outside stimulation, sleep, and good mental health as far, far below the needs of her children (at all ages, not just newborns and young babies). The idea that you must be around your baby 24/7 just seems to me to be another way of keeping women firmly "in their place".

What do you all think??

Why is supporting the charity undermining breast-feeding?

I'm not following your logic at all. The company is giving money to the charity.

What do you mean by a formula promotion? Maybe Australian law is different but formula can't be promoted for babies under 6 months. No 3 for 2 deals or offerd and purchases are not eligible for Boots or other loyalty cards.

ICJump

Are you able to explain what "could" means in this context, and how the figure of 20,000 was arrived at?

(I am paid to do this, and am having trouble sleeping, so you would be doing me a favour.)

(Not paid here on MN. I mean, this is what I mean about evidence.)

Because the cancer charity put it's logo on each tin of formula. Which endorses. The brand is a new one to Australia and is using the endorsement to get round manufacturing advertisement rules. Australia has a very lax approach to formula advertising. It can be discounted for example or advertised by supermarkets and you receive points on it.

I used could because if I say would many people will point out breastfeeding isn't the only thing in relationship to breast cancer.

this is from the lancet and looks at the figures in more detail.

Thank him for the reference. I will have a read.

It is true that breast cancer is generally believed to be multifactorial, so the people would be correct in what they point out.

improved birth spacing

Some days, I hate clinicians. Then I remember that meta-analyses are not written with angry radical feminists a lay audience in mind.

breastfeeding to near universal levels could prevent 20000 deaths a year from breast cancer

Can you give the source for that number please?

It's in the Lancet article I linked up above

Oh Christ, I may have turned this Feminism Chat post into a journal club. I should not be allowed out, me.

20,000 globally (let's say roughly 3.5 billion women) is a fraction of a fraction of a percent - 0.006% ish - It's meaningless.
And the article talks about low/middle income countries - which have issues around formula that are not relevant to rich countries. Lack of clean water and lack of easy sterilisation being two. It's disgraceful that in the 21st century kids are dying from dirty water, but it's not an argument against bottle feeding in rich countries.

If we want to increase breastfeeding then it needs to be something that empowers women, not something they feel guilted into doing. Much better support for those who request it. Better role modelling. For example I can't remember the last time I saw someone on tv feeding without it being 'a storyline issue.' Let's have characters on corrie feeding in the background as a matter of utter normality, like an extra would be having a cuppa and the paper.

It's as though people are horrified by bottles and it's become a value judgement on your parenting. That needs to stop and we need to start supporting women more, regardless of how they feed/carry/sleep.

Yes, I'd love breastfeeding to just be. But unless we articulate that we need to change things how can we go about it.

One to one support for women is good but the brunt of that falls on volunteers. This month I've done somewhere in the region of 20 hours of one to one counseling plus something like 20 hours of admin in terms of advocacy and fundraising and professional development. And that is a drop in the ocean compared to what needs being done. I've been asked almost every day to do additional helpline shifts, i've been asked to coordinate additional events and to find more money to fund the support women need.

For breastfeeding to really be a choice for women it needs to be easier, it need to be in the public eye, it needs to be legislated for, it needs global reprimanding of poor marketing practices it needs actual qualified support, it needs research funding, it needs milk banks everywhere.

So we can't just talk about it as some helpful tips. We need to be honest about it's benefits, the issues, the reality of breastfeeding and we need to remove the barriers to breastfeeding which include living in cultures where formula feeding is the cultural norm.

and 20000 womens lives do matter

'horrified by bottles'? Where do you live?

I do sometimes think mums believe themselves to be being judged way more than they are. I was so self conscious breastfeeding in public at first. Was I surrounded by rabid daily mail types waiting to tell me I was disgusting and wanton for getting my tits out? No. I was imposing my fears onto the general public and interpreting every glance as hate. Equally I can be out and breastfeed my toddler and see someone giving a bottle - if baby/toddler is older, we'll just smile at each other or glance and look away, if it's a newborn well I try not to look but if we catch each other's eyes I cringe because they stare at me like they are about to march over and give me a lecture on feeding choices.

When you are so wrapped up in this new arrival that is the center of your universe it's easy to forgot they aren't the center of anyone else's.

I wonder sometimes about the need to "tidy away" motherhood and infant care. It's as if it's all about the birth and the nursery and the eternity ring now come on- time to get back to normal.

And < dons hard hat> "normal" for women in our society means "available for sex". So, no leaking breasts or nursing bras. No babies in the marital bed. No wakeful babies to distract women from their proper duties......

I live in London batteries. I have seen so much judgment towards bottle feeders it's ridiculous.

I BF in public all the time - no one has turned a hair.

That's breastfeed as BF btw, not bottle feed.

I do sometimes think mums believe themselves to be being judged way more than they are

I suspect you're right. Why we do this is an interesting question. My mum thinks that I question my own parenting much much more than she ever did. How we parent our children has become commodified. There are a range of 'products' being sold, from conflicting parenting theories, weaning methods and sleep advice, to a choice of products (pram or sling, Ergo or baby born, forward or parent facing pushchair). They all sell the benefits of their product and imply the others are wrong/mistaken. We are pervaded by the idea that there is a 'right' way to parent and we feel insecure enough about what we do that other people's choices leave us feeling insecure and unsure of our own. Which results in women attacking each other about how they parent- and that is definitely not good for feminism.

and 20000 womens lives do matter

Of course they do. Every life does. That's not what I mean. 0.0006% is statistically irrelevant and certainly not a secure enough figure to base public health policy on. If I'd published a paper with such tiny percentage advantages I'd expect a savaging from the reviewers.

I live somewhere where BF rates are very high indeed. you can BF anywhere you can bring a baby and that's appropriate to eat and no one bats an eyelid. That's fabulous. I've had no trouble whatsoever feeding in public - it's totally normalised here. The only place I've ever been tut tutted, stared at or had narky comments is when visiting the uk (tucked quietly in the corner of a cafe which you think would be uncontroversial but there you go...)

I breastfed and am still breastfeeding my son. When I mentioned I was giving him a bottle a day to try to get his weight up/give me a break as advised by medical professionals I received torrents of abuse. Not on an AP forum (which I wouldn't join anyway) but a general 'expat parent' forum.

I'm pretty thick skinned. I dgaf how people feed their babies, and I'm well aware that while Ds is the centre of my world he's just another cute kid in a pushchair to anyone else. But I have seen women reduced to tears by such attitudes and that sucks.

Surely the feminist viewpoint is 'make an informed choice, do what's best for you and we will support you.' ? Because it sure as hell isnt online.

And furry makes an excellent point. How much of this shit is driven by marketers needing to sell to us? Classic advertising technique - buy X or you are uncool/smelly/unattractive/a poor parent.

We need to be more confident in our own choices and support each other . Raising kids is hard enough as it is without cat fights over stuff that's really irrelevant

TheHubblesWindscreenWipers

0.0006% is statistically irrelevant

Are you able to explain what it is that you mean by this?

I do thnk marketing hugely impacts in mothering. I don't think it has a positive impact in breastfeeding because if breastfeeding is going well there is no product

There does seem to be an issue around suitable breastfeeding support for women who want it. In developed countries that must be down to the facts that most of our mother's generation FF because that was the norm. My mum has put a lot of pressure on me to switch to FF because that is what was done to her. She is obsessed with the idea that my milk wasn't 'rich enough' and that is why my DD wasn't gaining weight. So the natural peer to peer support that should come from mothers doesn't exist.

Conversely, my health visitor had me in tears several times because she thought I wasn't trying hard enough to BF a tongue tied baby. She also suggested my milk quality was bad but because I was going out too much. I needed to try harder at BF. Bitch.
A world where those two opinions exist is not a comfortable world in which to be a new mother.

Absolutely. As a society we have a difficult combination of often ill informed/unhelpful HCPs and lack of general cultural knowledge/support to BF. By contrast both my DM and my MIL BF all their children, so my cultural norm was to BF and they were very very supportive of my desire to do so. I'm positive it was a huge factor in successfully BF DS1.

That if I recommend universal uptake of a drug or lifestyle improvemt on the basis that it'd stop 0.0006% of my study population getting sick, I'd expect some robust comments from reviewers.