My son is sexist.

[Clarabumps]

My son has just turned 9.

Dp has always treated me with the utmost respect and although I am a stay at home mum, I have free financial rein and I have never felt in any way held back by my non working outside the home status if you know what I mean.
My son has increasingly been making sexist statements about strength and abilities of women to do things. I'd consider myself a feminist as is dp and I'm honestly struggling to find out where these views are coming from.
"Sure boys are far stronger than girls?"
"A woman can't be a builder"
"Boys are better at maths and stuff than girls"
I'm totally dumbfounded. He says things like this a lot. I keep reiterating that women can do anything a man can do but I'm not sure I'm doing enough.
I don't know if it's the fact that I'm at home that he sees my role as worthless. Maybe I'm over thinking this. I'd appreciate any advice on where to go from here. I feel both me and dps are talking to the wall when trying to combat this.
It really seems ingrained in society. It's worrying me.

I work more hours than DH and my kids still think pink is for girls etc.

All mothers work Indeed, as do fathers. But when you have chosen to give up paid work while the father continues to go out and earn, you are perpetuating a societal norm and of course their home life will be the largest single influence on small children. It seems futile to blame society when you have recreated a microcosm of society that will impact more strongly on your young child's unconscious expectations that any TV ad. You need to be the change you want to see in the world, but I do realise that is hard for most people. It is easier to slip into traditional roles, then blame everyone else for your child's perceptions.

It seems futile to blame society when you have recreated a microcosm of society that will impact more strongly on your young child's unconscious expectations that any TV ad.

as a mother that works I disagree. It's not the being the sahm that matters. Does the other person respect the work the sahm puts in? Do the kids respect it? Is being a sahm what the mother wants to do? Or does she feel forced? Is she an equal partner?

Being a sahm does not mean your are supporting sexism or creating sexist children or an environment that supports societies sexist view.

Being a sahm should be viewed as being important as the person working outside the home. The only way we can change the way the world views sahp, is by teaching our children the value of it.

So, what you're saying is:

a) this is all the fault of his mother, if she worked then her son wouldn't be repeating sexist tropes he hears at school.
b) that unpaid caring work that women do is worth absolutely nothing, despite that capitalism relies on it to function.
c) you have little understanding of children's social development and have failed to comprehend the weight of peer influence at the stage this child is at.
d) it's all women's fault in general, and women should stop whining.
e) that women should be forced to go and work, in spite of their family's needs, inclination and ability.
f) that only the children of families where there is a SAHM are sexist.

I would agree with your laudable sentiments if there were equal numbers of men and women staying home/scaling down their careers to raise their families. But the fact is, the default position for women to give up/scale down work to enable men to concentrate on their careers and thus become bigger earners therefore perpetuating the inequalities down the generations, of men out in the world while women are confined to the domestic sphere. If you want society to be any different, you need to be part of that change. The OP's husband should give up work to allow the OP to get back into the workplace and build her career - that would be a very powerful message to send their child.

Eh?

Her son isn't saying "women can't work". He's saying women can't be builders and men are stronger.

Unless OP was a builder or a weightlifter, her having a job wouldn't counteract these particular sentiments!

"The OP's husband should give up work to allow the OP to get back into the workplace and build her career - that would be a very powerful message to send their child."

A powerful message about making an economically stupid decision?

If OP hasn't worked for 9-10 years (guesstimate) then her earning power will be affected.

All families have to get earning work, caring work and domestic work done. Each finds a balance of who does what and what is "bought in"

Yes, I would prefer there to be far less "default" in the balance but to assume that the OP's son's position is only a result of the SAHM/WOHD set up in their family is very naive.

"their home life will be the largest single influence on small children."

The son is 9. TV, society, school, magazines, friends, cub leaders etc all have an influence.

I like the gentle discussion approach. Encourage to reach own conclusions rather than repeat blanket statements.

It would be quite easy to express opposing evidence to the statements you give as examples.

DS2 (10) could make the statement that boys are better at maths than girls. He finds maths easy. In his class there are three boys who are just very good at maths and only a few girls - in this instance none of those girls excel at maths, at present. I would counter that with wider examples showing how things can vary at different ages. His opinion wouldn't be wrong based on his limited experience but I'd hope to expand his experience to help him form a more balance opinion rather than state you're wrong.

'Dd recently was told she couldn't be an engineer, by a boy at school. She wants to work for Airbus. They are at secondary. She asked him which part of an a330 was built using a penis'

davos , your DC is an absolute legend that started me laughing

Haha, that was funny, I aspire for my dc to make comments like that,

Despite constant challenging of stereotypes, my dc, 3 & 6 are still spouting stuff like this. I hate the term girls toys and boys toys but O think they get it from friends. Plenty of people don't see the harm, particularly ime if they only have boys or girls of dismissing items as boys/girls toys. No we don't have any dolls, we only have boys toys etc. it gets my goat.

I think it's just his lack of life experience.

My 15 year old was surprised when our last Amazon delivery was made by a woman. Logically he sees women driving and working but most of our deliveries have been made by a male so a female stuck in his mind.

The Pink/Blue culture created by marketers has really set sexual equality backwards. Each colour, hobby, toy is gendered and it's just ridiculous. My youngest is 10 and sees sexism in his life. We talk about news stories like the boys who were decided to wear skirts to school during a heatwave because they weren't allowed to be school shorts or pe shorts instead or that coverage of Tom Daly the diver always mentions that he's gay where as they don't say that about straight or single people.

If he says girls are weak watch Jessica Ennis throw a shotput, girls don't play footie then point out that the England women are far better at football internationally than the men. I don't believe that top maths table at school is all boys. Girls outperform boys in exams.

Paid childcare is hardly 50/50 male/female staff is it.

Sending a child to nursery / childminder still perpetuates the idea that it's women who do the nurturing.

When my son was 5 he told me that men are in charge. When he was 6 he said it again.

DH and I both work outside the home and share school runs, childcare and domestic jobs. But I know that there are still ways that DH behaves, and I behave, that make him think this. It's made me very defensive, if DH asks me to do something, or jokes that I'm crap at something, I leap down his throat.

The message is so hard to avoid. They get stuff from school, their friends - one of his friends' dads once pompously lectured DS on always opening doors and pulling chairs out for ladies, in front of me. I immediately explained to DS that was bollocks but now he keeps saying 'ladies first' because he knows it winds me up.

I just keep reinforcing the message, I never let an example of a woman in charge escape his attention. If for no other reason than this I'm pleased that we now have a woman PM.

But the fact is, the default position for women to give up/scale down work to enable men to concentrate on their careers and thus become bigger earners therefore perpetuating the inequalities down the generations, of men out in the world while women are confined to the domestic sphere.

Whilst of course there are more women at home, the reason the choice is made may be very different. I, personally, don't know any sahms that stayed at home to further their husbands careers. They stayed at home because they wanted to to and/or made more sense economically. Not because they had to.

davos , your DC is an absolute legend that started me laughing

she is far more fierce than I ever was at the age. She is pretty fab.

But still came out with sexist crap when she was younger. Because that's what she was told. She was also told if she ate an apple seed, a tree would grow out of her head. She believed that too. Again a discussion about why that's ridiculous not true, resolved it

'If the OP hadn't worked for 9-10 years then her earning power will be affected'
That is precisely the point I was making. Men are out in the world forging ahead because a woman has sporked her earning potential. Plainly the son is not stupid and can see what is under his nose. Male role - out in society with economic independence. Woman role - domestic enabler unable to command a decent wage. It is a shit paradigm that won't change if families keep sleepwalking into the same old stereotypes.

I agree with you, whatthese.

But it can be as hard for men to change it as it is for women. My request to reduce my working hours was automatically approved, but my male colleague's was greeted with horror and incredulity and declined. His wife therefore had go part time. It wasn't what either of them wanted.

"Plainly the son is not stupid and can see what is under his nose"

The son's comments have been about maths ability, strength, and being a builder (as far as the OP tells us) - not that women don't work. So not sure what you are referring to here. I imagine he sees a significant number of working women at school, probably some of whom teach him or his friends maths, don't you?

What about if your mum works in a nursery or as a cleaner?

Must we all be astrophysicists for the cause?

Or maybe we could accept that money earned is not the only indicator of a worthwhile contribution to society.

Your son isn't sexist, he lives in a sexist society and receives messages on a daily basis.

Is that so? Then at what age do men become responsible for their sexist attitudes? 18? 25? Never?
You know, society is made of people. And yes, 9 year olds, too, are part of society.

9 ist old enough to have some empathy, and know that calling his mom stupid and worthless (even if he does so in other words) is a shit thing to do.

There's hope that, as his brain matures, he will develop more empathy and more wisdom, but so claim that he is not sexist would be to pretend that 9 year olds are not capable of independent thought, and frankly, 9 year old me would have been very insulted by that.

Saying boys are better at maths, is an incorrect statement. It's not calling the op, or girls in general, stupid. Intelligence isn't something that is one attributed to one subject.

A 9 year is unlikely to think of it that way. That's why it's the OPs job to challenge what he is saying and make sure he thinks about what he is saying fully. Rather than repeating something he has heard and assuming it's fact.

It's her and her Dps job to make sure he doesn't believe everything he is told and that he understand the implications of what he says.

I also think we can shield kids to much from sexisim. We live or lives and challenge our kids when they repeat sexist statements. But I don't think many people discuss the impact sexism has on women. I think many kids believe that because women/mothers can work, can go to university, go to the same schools, get the same lessons etc that sexism isn't relevant anymore and it does really exist.

So it's not something they think about too much. I talk to my Dd about how sexism presents today, how it's damaged women, families and society in general. If something sexist happens to me, I talk to her about it.

I do with Ds too, but to lesser extent because of his age. We can't have the indepth discussion that Dd and I have. Dh also does this, which is important.

Your son isn't sexist; he's 9 yrs old.

Men out in the world forging ahead/ woman as the domestic enabler has not really a whole lot at all to do with the OPs sons comments - women can't be builders,boys are better at Maths...
Those are sexist comments about ability and you can talk about them and challenge them.DS is another who produced the whole doctors are men,nurses are women bit despite having only ever seen female doctors,with hindsight it was really quite funny watching him think about it,you could see his brain going "does not compute,does not compute....."
And I disagree with the implication that a successful life must of necessity involve forging ahead in the world.

9 y.o. only, he has a chance to become a normal man

"give up/scale down work to enable men to concentrate on their careers and thus become bigger earners therefore perpetuating the inequalities down the generations, of men out in the world while women are confined to the domestic sphere. If you want society to be any different, you need to be part of that change. The OP's husband should give up work to allow the OP to get back into the workplace and build her career".

...but if men are to take their part equally they need equal parenting rights eg equal parental leave equal parental responsibility and rights for single fathers and access to womens organisations and no more Mums and tots clubs. And the assumption that women are the natural carer of children needs to be challenged ss do the phrases women and children and the concept of women and children first when abandoning ship. The concept of a site called Mumsnet offering support to "mums"s is flawed.