Rio women's sports, starting with rugby 7s

[KanyesVest]

Disclaimer - I know nothing about sport, and less about rugby.

I've just watched the final of the women's rugby 7s and I thought it was brilliant. Strong, fit women who look like strong, fit women, playing a fast, physical game and wearing kit designed for form and function. I really enjoyed it and will put on a repeat tomorrow for dd to watch a bit. She's only 6 and loves running, jumping, climbing, football, etc, so it will be nice to show her these girls women can and do.

If anyone can suggest other highlights for me to catch, I'd appreciate it.

Yes it has changed a lot since they changed the scoring. I miss the 10s though.

Did anyone watch the women's 4K pursuit cycling qualifiers last night? Fascinating - the contrast between the UK and the USA (1st and 2nd fastest qualifiers) was really intriguing. I'm a cycle-to-work cyclist, not a keen follower of competitive cycling (I know little bits and bobs, because my gran was a serious cyclist, enough to know about slip streaming etc). My impression (be interested to hear from "proper" cyclists on this one) was that the US had better individual athletes - their explosive speed at the beginning was amazing, but the Brits were better technically as a team (maintained steady pace, didn't allow gaps to build up so they could all slipstream one another, knew exactly who should stay at the front and for how long). It was so impressive to watch.

The heptathlon starts today. Jess Ennis-Hill and Katarina Johnson-Thompson go for GB. Should be good!

Yes it has changed a lot since they changed the scoring. I miss the 10s though

Me too. And shoot me down but I do think the American female gymnasts are muscle bound and a bit odd looking.

I wish they'd kept the floor the same, but maybe added a tumble track for a separate class - I think they could do even more impressive tumbles if they didn't have to cover half the floor in their run up!

The body shape change is really interesting. I do think the present looks more 'natural' (not that anything in gym is that natural!) for the ballerina-type bodies than the more muscular type. I don't see why they can't present more like the men rather than arching their back so much.

(That's present as in presenting yourself, not the current time. Just realised it could read as either.)

We are latecomers to watching but started with mens and womens gymnastics today. DS, heavily influenced by my fulminating over everyday sexisms, enquiring why do the women have to look so sparkly (having just watched equally impressive men, unaided by sparkle). DD enquiring why the female runners were "bare" (crop tops and knickers). Didnt have an answer until we all enjoyed a swimming race with androgynous figures excelling and then finding out at the end who they were (women-we hadn't registered tbat the cozzies came all the way up as well as all the way down!).

For all the diving/trampolining/gymnastic sports I prefer to see the women looking elegant and artistic in flight, sometimes the pursuit of high difficulty takes away from that I think. Simone Biles is amazing on beam but her routine is a bit fast and not very graceful. I enjoy watching someone like mustafina or wevers a lot more .
Did anyone see the silver medal trampoline routine yesterday? That was incredible

The debate about why women athletes dressed differently to the men came up on here during the last Olympics. There was a poster who was a former elite runner who posted and said basically that that is how they wanted to clothe themselves for 1). performance and 2). there was a bit of showing off! I don't remember anybody having a pop at her back then. There is something that smacks of body shaming about some of the griping on here. Men dress in kit that optimises their performance. For women to be criticised for doing the same thing seems odd.

The Olympics coverage seems to be about as equal as you can get in terms of coverage of both sexes. The BBC don't seem to favour one over the other, either with regard to athletes or presenters.

How about forgetting what the men are doing, and simply celebrating peak human performance? Skill, dedication, grit, determination, speed, endurance and occasionally, something a bit special that just takes your breath away. If someone wants to wear a bit of sequin, frankly I think they have earned the right.

I agree. Actually I think its a shame the men can't wear sparkles if they want. Sparkly bright colours are universally appealing to children and a shame its only really acceptable for women to express that side of themselves as adults. I love the women's leotards!

I completely agree Fela I don't find Simone Biles that interesting to watch.

I also agree with Grim I don't like the assumptions that because there are differences between the men's and the women's gymnastics it's the women's which is automatically wrong and inferior.

Men do wear sparkly , bright costumed in ice-skating and ice dancing competitions.

I am not saying that sparkly is inferior; I am concerned at the obvious differences. I'm making a not too dramatic assumption that the fact the women's outfits are always the ones that seem to put a premium on appearance AS WELL AS performance seems to be part and parcel of women as defined at least in part by their looks. I really can't see body shaming in this observation; these women are supreme athletes with bodies that are at their physical peak, just like the men. I just don't see that silver eyeliner enhances that. I am also uncertain that "showing off" is what the Olympic ideal is about.

I am concerned at the obvious differences

If women are constricted by the rules, a la Sepp Blatter's idiotic utterances, then I agree. If they can wear outfits that are functional, comfortable, safe and optimised for performance, then surely decoration and it's appeal is in the eye of the beholder. Back in the 70's it seemed that leotards were all of a muchness apart from national colours. Would you rather they went back to this? I suppose the sensible thing is to ask the athletes themselves. If they said they were in favour of sequins, eyeliner etc., would anyone still object?

The showing off comment was from an athlete. I guess you'd have to take it up with her. Mind you, how many of us with an Olympian gymnast's physique wouldn't want to show off a bit?

I was having this conversation today and said exactly this- yes, I would like very plain leotard type things. Why must women be objectified /displayed / 'beautified' all the time? They are athletes, performing at the peak of human limits.
As I read this it sounds as though I believe the women are forced to do this and, I assume, most are not...other than by the prevailing culture in which we live.

For all the diving/trampolining/gymnastic sports I prefer to see the women looking elegant and artistic in flight, sometimes the pursuit of high difficulty takes away from that I think.

Why just the women?

For me, the Olympics (and sporting, rather than artistic, disciplines) are about the increasing pursuit of physical excellence and ability. What Simone Biles does may not be the most graceful/balletic but gymnastics has never been amazing at that, frankly. I don't watch it for the artistic interpretation, I enjoy watching dance if that's what I'm after.

It's a sport - the goal is physical attainment rather than artistic interpretation. But what Biles does is extraordinary in terms of what she is able to make her body do, the mental and physical control she has to push at the boundaries of what the laws of physics allow the human body to do. The physics of what she does (and other gymnasts do) is enthralling in and of itself. And the changes in the gymnastics scoring have enabled that to be pursued in modern gymnasts. Stronger, higher, and often faster. To me, that is an awful lot closer to the Olympic ideal than 'prettier'.

I suppose I said women just because I prefer and so watch mores women's gym (diving is my favourite though!) But in all those sports, a competitor can move very fast, not be make particularly well formed shapes or have particularly good height and do better than competitors because of higher difficulty. I suppose I'd prefer to see execution rewarded higher than difficulty. I'd rather watch someone do a simpler move perfectly than a harder move less well myself. Simone is amazing. I wish she would slow down a bit though.
Anyway I've gone totally OT

Although if she slowed down, some of the things she achieves wouldn't be physically possible.

It's interesting the way people react to the changes in women's gymnastics and I guess it comes down to each individual's idea of what gymnastics is for - ie sport or art, for want of a better dichotomy. Physically more amazing, or more enjoyable/lovely to look at. I'm in the former camp, so I'm thrilled the way the sport has developed, but I get that not everyone is.

I'm nit picking really because I do love these sports. I'm a perfectionist though so I always want to see a perfect move, not necessarily a harder move!

The Chinese female divers have it all imo, maximum difficulty and beautiful execution. No one can beat them at the moment. I've enjoyed watching Aly Raisman in the gym. She's a very stylish gymnast I think.

But for gymnastics is borderline as even being a sport. I was at this show today.

Driftwood | Dance, Physical Theatre and Circus | Edinburgh Festival Fringe
tickets.edfringe.com/whats-on/driftwood.

It was beautiful and stunning and brought gasps of astonishment from the audience. Is it dance, physical theatre, circus acrobatics, gymnastics ? The 2 young women looked very feminine but their physical strength was astonishing. (Thankfully burlesque seems to have had its day at the Fringe and has been replaced by stunning circus/ physical theatre acts)

I'm completely with Fela re elegance, grace and artistry.(I love the dressage) I have zero interest in simply how fast someone runs or swims or rows or in team sports.

Lass, I think that's such an interesting question and one reason I'm glad that gymnastics has moved away from the idea that perfection is attainable and towards the idea of ever increasing physical challenge - it roots it more firmly in the 'sport' category rather than 'art form/entertainment' camp.

If you want mixed sport, go for the sailing. Clothing is 100% practical there so all are in wetsuits. Same for men and women, no one has to wear anything cropped or cut so high you can see what they had for lunch. Sailors don't have time to pull clothes out of body orifices!

It would be nice to recognise some of the achievements of the women in the games. Just watching the track cycling, what fantastic athletes. ridiculous power and stamina in different events.

Why talk down the women's gymnastics? They do something different and it must be inferior "prancing about" because men don't do it.
I don't think I was talking down the gymnastics. Just noting the difference. I think the women's gymnastics has been amazing.
I do hate ballet though, whoever is dancing, which may have led to the "prancing" remark.

And the hockey team just beat the Yanks 2-1 with the kind of dogged teamwork that some English/British teams can only dream of. Oh, and Crista Cullen won her 100th cap tonight, and referred to her team-mates as 'girls' several times in the post-match interview. Is that infantilising or disrespectful?

referred to her team-mates as 'girls' several times in the post-match interview.

So did all the cycling pursuit team members about their team mates, and so did Clare Balding just now about the pentathletes :/