Rio women's sports, starting with rugby 7s

[KanyesVest]

Disclaimer - I know nothing about sport, and less about rugby.

I've just watched the final of the women's rugby 7s and I thought it was brilliant. Strong, fit women who look like strong, fit women, playing a fast, physical game and wearing kit designed for form and function. I really enjoyed it and will put on a repeat tomorrow for dd to watch a bit. She's only 6 and loves running, jumping, climbing, football, etc, so it will be nice to show her these girls women can and do.

If anyone can suggest other highlights for me to catch, I'd appreciate it.

The equestrian sports, the only gender equal sport in the olmypics

slender appealing women

appealing to who? You? Who decides what is appealing?

Felascloak an article explaining how journalists should cover sport, I think a fair few commentators should read it...
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/09/female-olympians-guide-gaffes-athletes-sports-makeup-shorts-marital-status-lindy-west?CMP=fb_gu

Welcome to mumsnet, Hunnybunny. If you are a woman of any sort, whether slender, hairless, built like a brick outhouse or hirsute as king kong, I'll eat my copy of the Feminine Mystique. But my money's on bridge dweller.

I thought this report on the BBC website, on the various reactions to Arab women athletes' clothing choices (whether hijab or swimsuit) was very interesting. (To over-simplify - the age old issue for women - you cannot win. You will be criticised whatever you do!) The picture at the end, contrasting women netball players in shorts and t-shirts in Egypt in the 70s with the covered beach volleyball player today was particularly interesting, I thought.

I think hunny has taken a wrong turn somewhere

Right up his "conventionally attractive" arsehole

Further to that BBC article, Matilda, the bikini is not compulsory in beach volleyball, and hasn't been for years;

www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/olympic-volleyball-uniform_n_1385879.html

Women can wear long baggy shorts like the men, or full body uniform like the Egyptians. The Brazilian women wore full body suits in London in 2012 due to the cold! If the athletes have a choice, and still want to wear bikinis, should anyone tell them otherwise?

Puzzled by tgat Grimarse- where did I say I thought it was compulsory? But since you raise the issue, it isn't that many years, why (when beach volleyball only became an Olympic sport a few years ago) did anyone (for anyone read men providing the sponsorship money) think in the first place that costumes chosen for sexual attractiveness were appropriate anyway? It all smacks a bit of good ole Sepp Blatter saying women's football would be more popular if women wore tight shorts (I would love to have locked him up in s room with my old Sunday league team to learn the error of his ways). Oh, and since you've been, for want of a better word, hanging around the feminism boards for ages, you'll know the counter arguments about the mere act of making a choice not being, in and of itself, sufficient to establish that the choice made was a feminist one. And you'll be aware of the arguments that the circumstances surrounding making a choice may be so constrained that it isn't a real choice at all some of the time.

I was adding to the discussion about the dress code, Matilda, not arguing with you. Perhaps I could have phrased it better. My question at the end was a general one, not specifically directed at you. Apologies if it came out that way.

So, under the yolk of The Patriarchy, when is a choice ever a choice for anyone? And is there some measurement of how constrained any choice is - some sort of sliding scale? How constrained do you feel these athletes are?

Women's mountain biking is another good one for watching fit women show off their skills

Anyone see the weightlifter this morning? She looked fantastic

So, under the yolk of The Patriarchy, when is a choice ever a choice for anyone? And is there some measurement of how constrained any choice is - some sort of sliding scale? How constrained do you feel these athletes are?

I've asked that question as well but never got an answer beyond general "no choices are entirely free of social pressure" .

I suspect every day when I put on a dress I'm (mindlessly) "performing femininity " and I'm doing so under the yoke of patriarchy but all the women on MN who go to such lengths to post about how they are never out jeans and sweatshirts think they are making a free choice.

Sorry, bit of a derail.

Not meant as a dig, I make as many typos as the next person, but I am giggling at the image of the yolk of the patriarchy... I'll have mine sunny side up, please.

There's an interesting discussion going on in chat about the women's gymnastics, exploitative coaching practices, dress codes and makeup and the like. It's thrown up a very interesting mixture of points, especially from posters who themselves did gymnastics to a very high level as teens/ younger women. Several have made the point (echoing Lass, I guess) that as teenagers, they were in fact typical teenagers who liked wearing a bit of slap (I was a teenager way back in the late 70s/early 80s - new romantics, eyeshadow like a panda... I can see where they were coming from). But at the same time, another poster pointed to an interview Simone Biles gave complaining about being pressured into wearing a bow in her hair when she didn't want to. (And of course the thread has had its low points, notably a poster contrasting the suitably feminine looking Russian team with what she disgustingly called the "she-men" of the American team).

DS and I watched the women's gymnastics final - it was fabulous. The power and strength and ability was just staggering. And contrasting it with the exercise in child exploitation which was gymnastics when I first started watching back in the 70s, it is fabulous to see strong adult women doing amazing feats of athleticism. (And although some are still in their teens, one of the Ukrainian women who is arguably still one of the best vaulters in the world, is 41!)

But going back to the appearance thing, it seems to me obvious that the attractiveness of male and female athletes is presented very differently. A male athlete whom women admire is presented as the active agent in the situation - his attractiveness puts him in the position of being able to pick and choose from among the women at his feet (cf footballers, racing drivers, etc.) A female athlete whom men admire is presented as passive recipient of their gaze - she isn't allowed to choose what attention she finds acceptable and what she isn't. That's why the beach volleyball outfits matter. The costumes of the women set them up for objectification in a way in which skimpy speedos on a male diver, say, does not, because society sets up the power balances differently.

Actually having been a sporty girl I am of the opinion less is more and would rather exercise in a good sports bra and tight gym shorts than baggy flappy stuff. My issue is that if I do that 20 years ago men assumed I was asking to be catcalled/groped and now I'm older I'd get judged for exposing a less youthful body!
Men seem fine to go running in a pair of running shorts alone when it's hot so I don't think they feel the same social pressure at all, as long as they aren't wearing "womens" clothes
I wish everyone could be treated like adults and wear whatever suits theit lifestyle best

elbandito thanks for the link btw. Great article :)

One of my heroes, Katherine Grainger, is in action today (if the wind drops on the rowing course!)

With gymnastics I get more annoyed about the format of some of the events. For the floor exercises the women have to prance about to music. The men don't.

It's been fantastic watching it with DD who, at 14 is in the throes of adolescent body image issues. We've been noting how many different body shapes there are and how different disciplines tend to have similar shapes i.e. gymnasts = small and muscular, cyclists = big calves and thighs, swimmers = tall with large shoulders. All these women are strong, fit and at the top of their game yet so few conform to the idealised female form you see in the media.

Bless her baby feminist heart, she's also started loudly correcting the TV commentators when they refer to grown women as "girls".

Bless her baby feminist heart, she's also started loudly correcting the TV commentators when they refer to grown women as "girls".

I can see why that grates, but what does she say when athletes say it about themselves? 'Boys' and 'girls' are used by participants all the time, especially in team sports.

Not necessarily. It's infantalising. generally the men are referred to as "men" and the women as "girls" Just in the same way that a sport is a 'sport' when played by men and a 'women's sport' when played by women. The combination of the othering and infantalising is quite grating once you start to notice it.

The only exception I've noticed so far is the diving commentator who insists on referring to the men as 'boys'.

Jess Varnish, who was controversially omitted from the GB squad, believes they can win a medal on the first day of competition.

“I'm hearing good things from the squad. I know the boys are ready to smash the team sprint today," she told Radio 5 live.

"The boys, they're the first medal available today so they're going to feel a bit of pressure. I spoke to Phil (Hindes) last night and I said 'How are you feeling?' and he's like 'I'll let you know tommorow'."

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/olympics/36772396

I had to laugh at Clive Woodward commenting on the rugby 7s. He kept saying girls, but occasionally saying ladies. But I didn't notice him saying the male equivalent - boys and gentlemen. I'm sure he was becoming aware of this discrepancy because he finally got to the point where he referred to women sometimes - but he sounded uncomfortable.

He is obviously and clearly not sexist in any way and was admiring the strength and power of the female players and how good the players were. But he also really had a real job referring to the players as women. It just shows how ingrained socially our habits are, however unsexist we are, so I cut him some slack ….because if the great Clive can admire women's rugby for its speed, strength and watchability then the dinosaurs who think it is unseemly/no good etc. had better take notice.

I'm starting to think The Pool reads mumsnet

www.the-pool.com/news-views/fashion-news/2016/32/laura-craik-on-rio-2016-gymnastics

With gymnastics I get more annoyed about the format of some of the events. For the floor exercises the women have to prance about to music. The men don't

Why talk down the women's gymnastics? They do something different and it must be inferior "prancing about" because men don't do it.

The power and strength and ability was just staggering.

I read a really interesting article earlier today (HuffPo?) about how changing the scoring system has resulted in a massive shift in the athleticism of gymnastics. By rewarding difficulty and trying more athletic and challenging routines rather than the 'perfect 10' routine that encouraged less risky routines that were good enough to get a 10 in theory but not pushing boundaries, the sport itself has changed and so have the bodies of the athletes. Complex tumbling combinations are particularly rewarded and so you've seen a big shift from more ballerina body shapes to the really strong legs and bodies you see in eg the US team, because you can't do those sorts of skills without some serious muscle.