AIBU about changing my title with my bank?

[gallicgirl]

My work colleagues seem to think I am and I'm willing to admit that I might be over-dramatising a bit but it's peeing me off.

I got married a few weeks back and I've kept my name. I've not bothered to notify any institutions other than changing my title at work from Miss to Mrs, mostly because being called Miss annoyed me a bit.
Anyway, I noticed my debit card on our joint account expires shortly so I phoned up to ask if I can have my title changed from Miss to Mrs on the card. I don't recall asking for Miss, DH filled in the application, I suspect he asked me what I preferred and I probably shrugged and said I didn't care.

So I pass security questions on phone banking only to be told a change of title constitutes a change of name and I need to fill in a form. I gently remonstrate with the chap on the phone but don't make a big fuss because I create enough bureaucracy at work and he's just doing his job. It turns out not only do I have to sign a form but I also have to provide proof of said name change. Seems bloody ridiculous to have to provide an original marriage certificate to change my title when I am entitled to use whatever the hell title I like.
I feel like telling them I want no title and see what kind of proof they require of that! Is it me or does this seem ridiculous?
Men get a default MR but women have to jump through hoops to justify how they want to be identified.

I'm not sure why this narks me so much. Someone upthread asked why use Mrs with my surname. Does that sound odd?

Might have been me. I'm puzzled why someone would change from Ms or Miss X to Mrs X.

I like being married and don't mind people knowing if it's on my terms and of my choosing. However I don't feel the need to shout about it

You have lost me there. Does anyone mind people knowing they are married? Are all men who stay Mr after they are married hiding something?

As for not shouting about it, you kind of are , otherwise why use Mrs? Mrs serves no purpose other than to say "I'm married"

My first name was misspelt on my bank account, and to get it corrected (from a non-name to a real name, it wasn't like Sarah / Sara) I had to show ID and get my husband's signature on the form as its a joint account.

Banks have really strict rules about changing information, so they reduce the risk of financial malpractice / fraud

My bank wrongly registered me as Miss and said I needed to go in etc to get a new card as Ms. It is a 3 hour round trip to the nearest branch so I have left it for 15 years...can't be arsed

I wonder if they registered a man as miss instead of mr would they insist he came into a branch to change it...? Somehow I think not

I think they probably would get a customer in, inot those circumstances. To get Miss instead of Mr would imply they got someone's gender wrong - which is a piece of identifying information in a way that different forms of female address aren't (but would be better indicated on their systems by a m/f field, and however they choose to deal with non-binary and transport. )

Banks have really strict rules about changing information, so they reduce the risk of financial malpractice / fraud

You were changing a mistake in your name, not in your non legal, non official title.

Somedyke if I book two hotel or theatre tickets in my own name by phone, I'm still often assumed to be the secretary ('please ask Dr Auriga to collect his tickets from...' etc) and DH finds himself booked in as Mrs Auriga. Which he answers to, cheerfully.

hotel or theatre tickets in my own name by phone

Phone? Did I miss a meeting and wake up in 1997?

'please ask Dr Auriga to collect his tickets

The bizarre part about that is that medicine is increasingly female, and I wouldn't be surprised if there is a point in the fairly immediate future where Dr in the MBChB sense is more likely to be female than male, doubly so now there's the dubious tendency for dentists to call themselves Dr. It's already true for physicians under 30, I believe (particularly as surgeons call themselves Mr and are disproportionately male).

I think PhDs are just about majority male, but again the trend is definitely female-wards, and I wouldn't be surprised if shortly the majority of new PhDs were female.

I don't know the MBChB:PhD ratio in the population (does anyone?) but if women form the majority of people under 30 who can call themselves "Dr" legitimately (ie, not Gillian McKeith) I wouldn't be surprised.

Did the bank think you also changed your name? Because as you also said, there is no document you can show to prove that you have now decided to use Mrs. Anybody can use it, you just woke up one morning and felt like it, that's all it takes.

On a slightly related note;
I got married in April and I took my wife's surname. When I went to change my name with my bank, it took them longer to question me as to why I had changed my name than it took for them to change it on their system and send me a new card out. Surely it's none of their business?

*Banks have really strict rules about changing information, so they reduce the risk of financial malpractice / fraud

You were changing a mistake in your name, not in your non legal, non official title.*

Yes but banks have their own sets of rules which abide by FCA guidelines. They collect this information for more than one reason - to ensure they have sufficient personal detail to adequately identify a person on the phone for example - and also to make sure they are addressing a person the way they prefer.

It might seem daft but the consequence for a person agreeing to make a small change when the bank says they're not allowed is not worth it. Yes it might be stupid or overzealous but I can guarantee you the rules will have come about because someone complained it was too easy to change a title!

OP make it worth it and change your name to Admiral

They collect this information for more than one reason - to ensure they have sufficient personal detail to adequately identify a person on the phone for example - and also to make sure they are addressing a person the way they prefer.

Although addressing the person the way they prefer often doesn't include the option of no title at all. And for gathering personal info for identification, it is not a difficult programming task to add a field for m/f.

How does knowing if I'm Miss/Ms/Mrs in any way give them any clues to adequately identify me over the phone? Any detail that is that they don't already have stored? How would me changing between those titles in anyway affect that ability?

If it's part of FCA guidelines that the bank needs to be able to identify me over the phone by my marital status (except in the case of my chosing Ms, or my being a man) then I will eat my hat.

The banks follow FCA guidelines for identification, they have their own rules within though.

Don't blame me, I just work for a bank!

Not blaming you, just saying, that 'computer says no' isn't a good answer from the banks, and, I find it hard to believe that the FCA regulations require it. If a bank has a policy requiring it, it is similarly stupid, as titles do not constitute part of my name.

I work in an industry which has rules around Know Your Customer and financial transactions. At no point have I ever encountered an issue with someone changing their title. Perhaps it helps that my industry is mainly used by men, so no company has ever thought to have a policy on it.

OP make it worth it and change your name to Admiral

I'm a wing commander, don't you know!

Thank you for the input. I haven't had a minute spare to complete the form, let alone write a letter to go with it. I shall be requesting a copy of said policy and regs which require evidence of a change of title and why it's a necessary identifier.

I feel like telling them I want no title and see what kind of proof they require of that!

Yes do that, see what they say.

Apologies as I have not read the entire thread.

My experience of being in the position of wanting to update my title on my accounts without updating my name was similar to yours: mixed.

Some financial organisations, whether banks or others, had their system set up such that a change of title takes place via the same process as a change of name, and requires proof, the same as a change of name does.

Other organisations require no proof at all, and made the change over the phone.

At least one, when I submitted the paperwork to update my title, removed my title entirely from the account leaving me title-less. . I let that one go.

In case it makes any difference, there is at least one utility bill on which my title reflects the opposite gender to mine and I cannot remember whether I ever got around to getting that amended or not, and it has yet to cause an issue with my utility supply.

Personally, I decided I had bigger fish to fry and just left it, so I am my former title on some accounts and my new title on other accounts and the wrong title entirely on others.

In conclusion, YANBU to address the issue with your bank, but YABU to press the poor guy on the phone who is following the process set out by his bank into bending the rules that he is following. He is only doing his job, after all. Maybe just respond knowingly, "Ah, your bank is one of the ones whose database was built under patriarchy"?

Thanks erinaceus.
I promise I didn't press the guy on the phone especially. I deal with customers on the phone so I'm never rude, I merely queried if it was absolutely necessary then took it up vi e-mail with head office. I know he's just following set procedures so not even worth kicking off over something which at the end of the day, is fairly trivial in the big scheme of things.

I wonder if most database builders are male?

I was married over a decade ago and never bothered changing Miss to anything else (I kept my surname). I don't think it is an official part of your name anyway.

Yes. The person on the phone is doing their job. It is the system that is set up in a way that you do not like.

I wonder if most database builders are male?

I wonder this too. Unrelated, but design and maintenance of databases is one of those surprisingly difficult things, IMHO.

I hope you get your identities sorted out in the end!

I wonder if most database builders are male?

Yes, in my experience. Not all, but the majority.

Design and maintenance of databases can be difficult, but really a field for titles or just marking someone's sex is a pretty trivial thing in a DB. However, it would probably be viewed as an unimportant change, and wouldn't get into the change schedules ahead of ... almost anything else, I'd bet. Unless lots of customers are complaining.

About 35% of DBAs are women. Some figures put software developers at 92% male. IT in general is around 23% women. But - there are cultural differences - it's mainly an issue in the USA and northern Europe (and Australia, Canada, NZ.) Figures in India are more like 41% women, I think. Haven't got current figures to hand.

There has also been some research on sexist assumptions in computer algorithms. I am too tired to look for links just now, though.