Why do some men think it's appropriate to beep at women and chat them up in the street?

[Queenbean]

It sounds made up but this evening on my way home from work I have been:

• beeped at twice
• hollered at by a man in a van waiting at the lights - told him to fuck off
• then a guy came up up to me and followed me up the street saying how pretty I was, did I have a boyfriend etc. I asked him why he thought it appropriate to harass random women in the street and to leave me alone. Then I told him to fuck off too.

Why do certain men think this is acceptable?

NB, I am wearing jeans, trainers and a cami. Even if I was wearing a crotchless playsuit this wouldn't be appropriate

Entitlement if you like, but everyone is told their entire lives how they need to go out and be pro-active if you want to get a girl/boy.
I remember reading Smash Hits and similar magazines I forget the names of 30 years ago with articles on how to get boys to like you.
Boys have it more so than girls I think, in fact girls are often told they are too forward if they approach a boy. I have known women who have a rule that they will never make the first move, as that's the man's job.
But anyway, we seem to be talking about harrassment here. I think it's clear where an "chat up" approach ends and harrassment begins, but there's probably some cross over.

But anyway, we seem to be talking about harassment here. I think it's clear where an "chat up" approach ends and harassment begins, but there's probably some cross over.

This is interesting.

How do men know how the woman they think they are chatting up will react? Given that proportionately large numbers of women have been victims of sexual violence to some degree, why do men still take the chance?

The only rational answer is that men feel that women in public space are fair game, that, as Buffy says, men are the subject of the world, and women are merely objects.

There may well be a difference between chatting up and harassment when it comes to public spaces, however the majority of women are very aware that unless they treat all approaches from strangers as a) then b) is extremely likely to follow.

Wot, has nobody pointed deydododat in the direction of Schrödinger's Rapist yet?

I'm on the phone and can't link, but I'm sure Google will sort you out, deydododat.

I'm not saying it's ok, I'm trying to answer the question "why do men think it's ok?".

And I think what PPs have been trying to tell you is why it's not ok.

The only way men to think differently is for everybody, yes, that includes men, to take a stand against. It behoves [decent] men to foster a society where women don't have to worry about whether they'll get violence just for being in a public space.

Is what was said 30 years ago in smash hits still what is said to girls today?

Sadly it's more likely to be sexting requests, isn't it?

As a PP said, if the opening words are something situational, something you might freely say to another guy in the same place, then that's far less likely to be problematic.

Do they absorb the message that it's welcome, Buffy?

If they did, why would a message of "not for me" occasion so many bad reactions?

If I'm "offered" anything else that might be interested in (a Big Issue, say) then a simple shake of the head or a no doesn't bring an wntitled outburst.

Agree with the rest of your post!

I think for the men who do it, they just need to hear one woman say that she likes it, doesn't mind it, finds it flattering etc etc and they then extrapolate from that one woman, that all women must really like it. And those who don't are man hating lesbians/old bags/feminists or are in denial. The blame never lies with the men who do it.

And it's not sexual in my experience but a power play - which would explain why I've had gay men do it to me as well.

Men as a class don't care about it. They think it's probably annoying, maybe even threatening on occasion and that's a bit shit, but that's only a few idiots. And some women like it so there you go. In their hierarchy of problems women might face it is not that important. I think I've been mansplained to on this subject more than about any other feminist issue.

I also agree it's a power play for the men who do it. They don't expect to get anything other than a reaction.

Sigh.

How many problems could be solved by the radical idea that women are people?

If you wouldn't like mike Tyson yelling nice arse at you on the street, don't you do it to someone less strong than you.

If you wouldn't say something to a guy at a bus stop as part of a conversation, don't say it to a woman. So " blooming bus, late again", fine. "if the bus,is crowded, will you sit on my lap?" Not fine.

As a teenager in the 70's I put up with this constant, deeply unpleasant fact of life. God help you if you had to walk through or past workmen digging a road, hanging off scaffolding. Men of all kinds standing outside a pub on a summer night. Any van that drove past, any car that passed made you a target to all classes of men. It was normal. It was a fucking nightmare and not one I wanted for my daughters, so I am glad that it was eventually declared unacceptable behaviour and we have past govts and employers, working with women to thank for that. It became a sackable offence. It does seem though to have crept back and been on the increase, lately. My girls, in their growing up, have spoken about the odd wanker, saddo, who calls out but it seems to be on the up and I can't understand why. They seem to get it on a regular basis and I got whistled at twice in the last two weeks.... when I mentioned it to an acquaintance was told 'you've still got it then!'. No I fucking haven't and I don't want that as a testament ffs - sad fucker whistled at me from his van because he saw me as a target to make himself feel like a cave man. I despair and sometimes I think that I haven't got room in my head to care, but then I read threads like this and it gets me ramping mad! So Yo! The Sisterhood! Keep fighting the fight and get this behaviour stopped again.

kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger’s-rapist-or-a-guy’s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/?_ga=1.220754584.129579606.1402609390

So if you speak to a woman who is otherwise occupied, you’re sending a subtle message. It is that your desire to interact trumps her right to be left alone. If you pursue a conversation when she’s tried to cut it off, you send a message. It is that your desire to speak trumps her right to be left alone. And each of those messages indicates that you believe your desires are a legitimate reason to override her rights.

^^this

I agree Detestable particularly with the part "you believe your desires are a legitimate reason to override her rights"

Makes me think of my STBXH and feel happy to be away from him!
(I know all men aren't controlling though!)