Pakistan religious leader thinks "light beating" is a good way to get your wife to do as she's told

[Felascloak]

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/pakistani-religious-leader-defends-telling-men-it-is-acceptable-to-beat-their-wives-lightly-for-a7085136.html

Sometimes I get so focussed on feminism in the UK I forget how utterly shit it is in other parts of the world. Wives have "responsibilities" that need monitoring by their husband. Including not dressing how the husband wants or refusing sex.
Ugh.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/pakistani-religious-leader-defends-telling-men-it-is-acceptable-to-beat-their-wives-lightly-for-a7085136.html

I know what you mean OP. It makes 40 odd pages of quibbling over the lyrics in 'The Wheels On The Bus' seem a bit trivial really dont it?

I'm wondering why this thread has attracted so little attention?

There's a thread about this in chat where someone has actually played the cultural relativism card - I think I'm quoting correctly when I report them as having said "it's just their way. That's all". I'm glad to say everyone else on the thread has universally condemned their views as totally twattish.

The trouble is that you will insist on focussing on women. Feminism should be about equality- what about all the men who are beaten lightly by women every day? There aren't any articles in The Independent about them.....

I remember reading something saying "you're never too poor to beat your wife". A bit crass but a reminder that you can't just focus on poverty and ignore women's issues as a "luxury".

Sorry lurcio I missed the chat thread. Didn't mean to duplicate but I wanted to draw attention to it. I feel like there are things to discuss, but I'm not sure what. Its so depressing to think of women living in those kinds of relationships.
buffy "you'd be hard pressed to find someone to put the op down for overthinking it, that's all."

Not saying you should have spotted it, Felas. Just kind of supporting the point that unless you're an out-and-out contrarian for the sake of it, it would be hard to find anyone here who isn't horrified by it.

If you are not beaten lightly you should count yourself lucky and shut up about all the other instances of sexism, eh? Women, know your place.

I wonder if someone has come up with a scale to measure what "lightly" means.

I remember that Tower Hamlets council had CDs in it's reception area of a UK Imam who had on several occasions said exact that with reference to "light beatings". The rod used should be no wider than the pinky. No one shouted down the council over that and considering one of the councillors was a highly active feminist I was upset to see she didn't challenge it. Interesting now she is married she has dropped out of politics. I am use to the attitudes of third world men who see their wives as chattels but it was upsetting to see intelligent UK women pushed around by the religion. I have on occasion tried to do small things in the third world with reference to distribution of money in fair trade but it is hard work and many people involved in fair trade in the first world are just worried about being seen to do something good but they won't challenge the local customs and values.

Religion has a lot to answer for in my mind doesn't matter which one they all seem to be keep us down.

There are, and have been cultures where it unmanly not to have control of your wife, your animals etc as in the Taming of the Shrew. We are lucky here not all men think that.

For anyone who read Elena Ferranti's Naples books, isn't the description of how a man treats his young wife [the heroine] utterly chilling? It must have been the norm.

After reading in the paper today about a 7 month pregnant woman in Pakistan having her throat cut by her parents and brother for marrying someone they didn't want her to, there really isn't anything more that can horrify me about people, there really isn't.

In reading this thread I suddenly remembered seeing something very odd by chance on the internet called Taken in Hand.

surrendered.blog.com/taken-in-hand-relationship/

I wondered if anyone had stumbled across the extraordinary
Taken in Hand movement? It follows the idea of a woman voluntarily submitting to everything her husband says as a matter of course. It can include punishment. It seems to be a way of trying to think into life the fantasy of the big strong Captain or Doctor type of a Mills and Boon story. A man who will decide everything for you and take all your troubles away and punish you for your misdeeds. Like a Mr Darcy (gone wrong).

The man will feel big by default and will never be challenged by his wife whatever he does.

That taken in hand rubbish is mentioned every now and again, but it hasn't been active in YEARS..

Quickly
Taken in Hand seems to be going on still so I'm not sure what you mean. And it seems to include the idea of 'light beating' , just as the Pakistani religious leader advocates, but in the USA I presume.

Tbh, I'm surprised this is even 'news'. I thought it would be obvious that other cultures treat women like pets.

Original what you say is so true.

Pretty - you'd get in trouble for beating a dog.

Some of the fundamentalist Christians also scare me about this.
Eg carm.org/apologetics/womens-issues/what-does-it-mean-wife-submit-her-husband

Agree with what others have said above. It is stated in the Koran that husbands may lightly beat their wives if certain other tactics are seen to have failed. As the Koran is the direct word of Allah, it's not at all surprising that certain Islamic clerics will reiterate this view.

My husband spent years in combat in Afghanistan. I have also spent quite a lot of time in Pakistan and, as Original Mavis says, this kind of news is sadly just the tip of the iceberg. As long as women are prisoners within their own homes, their stories will continue to go untold.

I think the Taken in Hand movement is totally different as some women actively choose this kind of relationship. There are no cultural or religious expectations on them, nor are they forced into anything through fear.

Where my family are in the ME, if a husband hit his wife she would most likely lamp him back, call her mum, his mum and the whole family would like in and have a go at him. Culturally, it is not acceptable and God help you if you raised a hand to a woman or elderly person.

Of course I'm sure if you go out to B-F-nowhere it may be less frowned upon, especially if they decide to cite religious reasons to suit the purpose.

There are countries where women have always (pre Islam and beyond) been treated as the lowest creatures on earth, and basically disposable.

Felascloak
Some of the fundamentalist Christians also scare me about this.
Eg carm.org/apologetics/womens-issues/what-does-it-mean-wife-submit-her-husband

I agree. This is part of that link you sent. This follows on from a paragraph that it is God's will:
A woman therefore does not submit because her husband deserves it in his own merit- she submits because she knows it is pleasing to her Lord. There will be times when a woman needs to submit, and her husband does not deserve it from a human perspective. But by divine right, God set the man as leader and a woman can trust that God is good. She can also know that nothing escapes God’s notice, and a wicked man will be held accountable for his actions

So a wicked husband can do what ever he likes. The woman must submit no matter what it is. Never mind. God will be pleased with her and punish him later when he is dead!

I think the Taken in Hand people can be fundamentalist Christians as well.
It is such a dangerous idea.

Amaia
What you say is so sad: that that sort of news is just the tip of the iceberg in those parts of the world you and your husband came to know.

I think the Taken in Hand movement is totally different as some women actively choose this kind of relationship,
I agree. It is a sort of sick fantasy, Mills and Boon style, that may be adopted by some women and men, out of choice.

I think though that some of the Taken in Hand, are also linked with fundamentalist Christianity US style too.

I have just started reading a book about ... well, technically, it is about Islam and how the male believers of that religion treat women, but so far, I've only read the chapter(s) on Pakistan.

Must say, that country is ... unredeemable. The percentage of men there that would have to be killed if there's to be ever any hope for civilisation must be above 50%.
Obviously, as killing women is totally legal there as long as her father forgives the murderer. (And since the father often IS the murderer ... you can see where this is going)
The men in government think that's totally a good thing. And the women in government ... well, there are no women in government. The alleged women in government are all straw-women for their male relatives, apparently.

I think if my country declared war to Pakistan on grounds of the human rights violations, I'd be on board with it ... and I'm usually a pacifist.
But there's limits to what you can do with activism and education.