Feminists- what stops you giving up and helps you keep going?

[LastFirstEverything]

By 'giving up' I mean by being a feminist in public, either in 'real life' or on the internet; so, on mumsnet, or facebook, making comments btl on blogs or articles, or wherever.

Because, I often feel disheartened by real life conversations and by some attitudes I come across. The everyday sexism can be so pervasive. I used to try to talk to my mum about things I felt, about feminism, but she really doesn't 'do' feminism. I don't have many close friends, and those that I have are lovely, but are not up for much feminist chat.

So I feel isolated, but come onto mumsnet, and feel less so. But there's a bit of anti-feminism here too (not HERE here, but peppered throughout the threads on AIBU and chat). It's depressing, but I like variety and freedom, so enjoy the variety of opinions too.

Then, I just read the Office leg shaving thread, and just felt so fed up, at times it all feels so futile- the caring about sexism. Makes me want to just never engage because I don't have the energy. Found the Guardian article on it very depressing too, because I really like Victoria C-M, and then I start wondering if I'm just a bit stupid to care at all, about any of it.

SO- Do you ever feel like this too?
If so, do you have any tips on how you cope with the ennui, the depression, the desire to give up bothering any more?

I think if I had a real life community of feminist friends, like I had (briefly) over 20 years ago now as a student, it might be easier. But maybe not, because it wasn't exactly easy at the time- it was challenging and embarrassing to be seen as a feminist, I found. I was often more concerned about being attractive to men, or to 'cooler' friends.

I've been reading (online) Andrea Dworkin, who has encouraged me somewhat. And I like watching Gail Dines videos on YouTube that I've recently discovered. What do YOU do?

Please give me some encouragement or ideas (if you can). Many thanks.

Oh, I don't think I was seeing any kind of argument where there wasn't one Grim. From her post, OP is struggling in the same way many of us do. Hence the more constructive replies on the thread.

My employer has a Women's Network. The organisation operates in STEM industries, so this is a good thing. My employer publicised a women's network event by making it very clear that the event and the Women's Network is for both men and women, that 10% of members are men, and that being a member of the women's network is beneficial for women and men. Because heaven forfend we have a women's network without bending over backwards to accommodate men. As one of my awesome male colleagues said: "It's ok, you can have that one. My feelings won't be hurt by not being invited. I'll cope somehow.

I'm not sure this is linked, but it annoyed me and galvinised me.

Thank you all so much for more replies, only just managed to get on the computer to check, so sorry I've not replied earlier.

To try and answer your question Grim, I think part of the reason I find it hard to talk about feminist stuff with friends is that we see each other quite rarely. They (and I) are busy doing so many other things (childcare, looking after elderly parents, for most working too), and our time is short and precious together.

We tend to prioritise the most important things, and those tend to be related to events that are often difficult and emotional. (Not that they aren't all potentially feminist, and often are feminist issues, in a a way- child care etc, but the way our discussions go, it's hard to talk about the feminist perspective specifically at times.)

So when I last saw my closest local friend, we talked almost exclusively about her recent traumatic bereavement and subsequent problems with work, family etc. Then we both had to go and get on with things.

I suppose it's not that they/we can't talk about feminism, but we haven't the time or the focus when we're together to concentrate on it.

Thank you to ALL who have answered this. I feel less alone!

I want to write a clever reply, but my real life feminism is mostly restricted to feminist rants (maybe I should call them roars!) about things most people haven't noticed or don't care about. It's embarassing really but I can't help it! So Im just placemarking

I have always been a feminist but my gorgeous kickarse daughter has given me new energy in that direction. She's naturally strong and confident but faces many different challenges to the ones I faced. So even if I feel discouraged I think of her and her contemporaries and keep on going.

The idea of giving up is totally alien to me, because it's who I am not just something I do.

Mind you, having been accused of all sorts of anti-feminist behaviour on here, a campaigning past counts for naught anyhow.

So my point is that it should encompass a wide range of approaches, political leanings, and styles of communication. When it becomes a straightjacket that leaves you frustrated/exhausted, change your approach.

As one of my awesome male colleagues said: "It's ok, you can have that one.

That's good - I usually get, "how come no one ever does anything for men?" despite it also being open to men. If I point that out, it's "but I'll be the only one!" Yes well, welcome to my entire career... But that'should different, apparently. I have also suggested they put their case together and take it to HR, if they feel white, heterosexual, middle-aged, middle-class men need some support because they're so discriminated against in the workplace. AFAIK, this hasn't happened to date. Odd that...

For that'should, read that's. sigh Stupid auto-incorrect.

Yes, I do feel the same from time to time. What keeps me going is the knowledge that keeping going is in itself a feminist act. If feminism were a harmless annoyance that wasn't changing anything then it would be ignored. The fact that people rail against it, deny it, the fact that people like Grimarse spend significant amounts of their time dissing it, means that it is doing something. The backlash is part of the process. It's difficult and dispiriting but it's necessary.

Ooh, a namecheck. I'm honoured. You just don't like people disagreeing with you, Sparrow. There are individuals in every political movement who become so entrenched in being right about everything, every time, that all dissent is seen as an attempt to undermine the whole movement.

As Meditrina said; So my point is that it should encompass a wide range of approaches, political leanings, and styles of communication. When it becomes a straightjacket that leaves you frustrated/exhausted, change your approach.

OP, I really feel your pain. I feel like this about the Internet in general. Much of it seems like such a hostile place to women, and the prevailing common sense is anti-liberal, anti-Muslim and anti-women. The comments under blogs,articles, videos etc are so wilfully misrepresentative of feminism and resentful of women's progress in general that I become afraid to comment for fear of nastiness.

It is depressing and silencing and I really have no answer except Mumsnet and especially FWR is the only place I feel safe to express myself.

Yeah whatever Grimarse.

I feel largely very alone with my feminism.

I find MN incredibly and depressingly hostile towards feminists and many womens issues in general - it constantly surprises me how many people don't seem to even "get" the basics.

As for NotAllMen etc - good grief!

I do learn a huge amount from the FWR boards and I am thankful for those - and yet threads are constantly being invaded by goady fuckers. And there is often a lot of infighting to - which I guess is to be expected. But I do feel that feminism is often a battle at every turn - and that if I'm not very cautious all the power/joy/happiness can be sucked out of it. It can be exhausting.

Some of the posters on FWR really fill me up with hope. But on a daily level it seems feminism is needed more and more, but becomes less and less important to society at large.

I went to the Feminism In London conference last year and it was amazing and inspiring and so awesome to be surrounded by so many feminists at once. All all the knowledge and power that was there. I want to go every year (no dates announced yet for 2016?). I would like to go to the RadFem conference too.

I've been on the MillionWomenRise March in London the last 2 years. I've not met any new friends there, but it is uplifting to be marching with others.

I do have some friends who are "feminists" though they are nowdays mostly preoccupied with families, partners etc. No one I know has a partner who is really clued up and supportive about feminism - which is really grim.

I would love to make some more feminist friends - not to talk about feminist issues ALL the time, but just to have that feeling of being understood and accepted.

On a more positive note, the press do seem to have more of a feminist focus at times and there are some great writers around.

I loved the documentary on Netflix "She's Beautiful When She's Angry". I read around. Sometimes I take a break.

The most amazing thing is my 8yo DD is blossoming into a glorious feminist. I'm not sure its entirely my doing - but she got "policeman" in her spellings this week and she commented how pointless and irrelevant it was to get that in her spellings - "Everyone knows we say police office now". She would NEVER say fireman for example and rolls her eyes at people who do - she is down with exclusionary language at an early age.

I've not discussed many feminist issues with her, because well she is too young to talk about rape, and sex etc. But we do talk about peoples "roles" and "gender roles" a lot. Weekend Womens Hour were talking about rape the other day and I did want to listen but the subject was fairly graphic and we were in the car so I changed channels. 8yo asked me to change back as "it was very interesting". So my daughters do give me hope.

And I deal with it in tiny little gentle ways - I challenge stuff when it comes up. When the someone at school suggests putting a bit in the newsletter asking for Dad's to volunteer for a certain job, I suggest she asks for parents to help and ask her why she would want to exclude women? "Oh yes good point" she giggles.

theydont I know what you mean about the Internet. It's horrible. Just read an article on LinkedIn about gender parity in finance and the comments were horrendous. On a professional networking site! It truly shows how acceptable sexism is, if men are happy to have these kinds of things linked to their real name and professional standing. Clearly there is no come back from employers :(

Prince I also agree with you about MN. Very depressed by the amount of rape apologism and making it easier for sex offenders out there at the moment. What is wrong with people? Your daughter sounds awesome!

thanks Fela - she is pretty awesome. :)

Buffy You are one of the FWR posters I always look forward to you wading into a thread (especially if it's gone a bit hairy) with your intelligence, reason, excellent typing and fierceness.

(I've been around for a while but an regular NC'er).

I also wonder why these threads, and threads like the "sex trade" one attract so few people. I'm gob smacked more people don't have something to contribute or at least ask on feminist issues.

I've stayed away from the sex trade one because I cba to deal with goady fuckers. Wish I could apply the same logic to the rape ones.

Fair point - I admit I've done that too.

I am a radical feminist and in 40 years of being an adult I have never met another one in real life.

Also, currently, I don't know any feminists in real life. I suspect there might be some closet ones in my town, but how to find them? Advertise?

OP you just gotta keep on expressing your feminism wherever you can. "Giving up" isn't an option. We have to make the world better for our (grand) daughters.

What is FWR, please?

Old names for the board curviest
I also want to meet some irl feminists but I'm a bit scared some of my radical views might not be welcome as libfem seems more common and my local feminist group appears to no longer be active.

This section used to be called Feminism and Women's Rights - FWR.

Many more comments, thank you so much for these responses to everyone.

I'm about to watch 'She's beautiful when she's angry'- thank you so much for this recommendation HisNameWasPrince (EXCELLENT nn btw! I love Prince so much, and loved the fact that he was always very inclusive of women musicians in almost all of his work, especially in the 70's and 80's, when it was very unusual, and still is to some extent.)

Just read a blog post by Karen In gala Smith - inspires me to keep going. I don't know how she maintains her commitment to keep going in the face of such resistance

kareningalasmith.com/2013/04/29/this-thing-about-male-victims/