female identifying only area at Glastonbury.

[Playduh]

http://i-d.vice.com/engb/article/glastonbury-announces-revolutionary-women-only-venue?utmm_source=idnewsletter

This just makes me so depressed. How have we got to a place where men are deemed so incapable of behaving themselves, women need to have a place to hide.

I'm teaching my son about respect and consent. Why am I bothering when society seems to think it's better to just fence off the women?

And (I accept I'm probably going up in flames for this one.) 'female identifying'? So it's not a safe place for women, it's a safe place for 'non-men' again isn't it?

Blablabla "women only spaces" followed by "women identifying"...so there will be men there too then

It's just wrong on so many levels. It doesn't respect anybody. The worst thing is that Glastonbury will be really proud of this and won't understand why they aren't doing the right thing.

Did they stop to think about just improving their general security? Not such a sexy headline I guess.

Thing is I don't think it's just that men can't control themselves( sure there's loads of bastards), but also many women want a women's only area (for many reasons) I've seen many times people talk how they wouldn't mind living in a women only commune on MN, mostly on the feminism board.

And seeing someone say there will be loads of men in there as its female identifying, I don't think so the trans community is a small % of the population, then it's an even smaller % that would cause trouble, and would surely be in the minority in such a space. And I think people overestimate the efforts men would go to to cause trouble, I doubt most would think ooh lets identify as women to be with women and do it, like most women don't like being seen as a man, as there would still be. 1000s of women in the general population area.

What also concerns me; if someone chooses not to use that space and gets assaulted, would there be a tacit assumption that she was somehow implying consent?

Of course there wouldn't.

Trans issue aside, which is another debate, it's good to give women the option of an area without men. Am sure they are also doing lots on security.

And I think people overestimate the efforts men would go to to cause trouble

I think you underestimate them.
With that identification shit, men don't even have to make the effort of donning a dress and wig, they can just walk in, naked hairy chest, full beard and all.

Apparently, straight men in gay bars are a well-known problem - the straight women go there to be left alone while they dance, the straight men chase after them, and then the straight men act all offended when a gay man hits on them.
If straight men take the risk of being seen as gay - actually gay - in order to molest those women who want to get away from them, then I don't see why they wouldn't risk being seen as trans.

I've spent a lot of time in gay bars. Never seen a man act like that.

You obviously go to different ones than I've been to.

Good lord. An area designed as a women-only space, conceived and implemented by a woman, for women to use if they wish, is oppressive? What if the women attendees actually enjoy using the space? Is it still a shit idea? How does it differ from Rad Fem festivals and meeting where they only want women to attend?

I wonder why there isn't a men only area too? Or a gay area only. Or is there? If it's segregation of any type, even voluntarily, how is this supposed to help equality? Could we have an area just for whites? The ones that don't really fancy hanging out with non-whites? Is that cool?

And I'm not sure I like this idea that all men are an assault waiting to happen.

Playduh, you might not like the idea, but the organisers say it is a problem:

'Music festival misogyny is as tiresome as it is harmful. Whether it's the lack of female headliners or the ongoing problem of sexual assault, it's quite clear to any female-identifying music fan that most festivals — and gigs in general — are spaces organised by and for men. Now Glastonbury has proposed one very bold solution: a women-only venue called "The Sisterhood," providing a safe and fun space for female-identifying fans and musicians.'

Ok they aren't the organisers. Sorry. I should have checked.

How does it differ from Rad Fem festivals and meeting where they only want women to attend?

Men are allowed to identify in. That's not the case on Rad Fem festivals. Also renders the space more or less useless.

And I'm not sure I like this idea that all men are an assault waiting to happen.

Neither do I - but all men ARE Schroedinger's rapist/assaulter, and there's nothing I can do about that.
Would sure be nice to live in a world where one can tell the nice men from the rapists. Tell me if you found it.

This isn't new at Glastonbury I don't think. I've definitely been in women only tents/cafes there previously. It was brilliant from what I remember. Drank some cider, relaxed and recharged between partying.

Though I agree that the security at Glastonbury could do with a massive overhaul. Plenty of rent-a-thugs picking on kids and not enough making the site secure. 1 of the reasons I've not been in a few years

*I wonder why there isn't a men only area too? Or a gay area only. Or is there? If it's segregation of any type, even voluntarily, how is this supposed to help equality? Could we have an area just for whites? The ones that don't really fancy hanging out with non-whites? Is that cool?

And I'm not sure I like this idea that all men are an assault waiting to happen*

The whole world is a mens area. Stop trying to make out that women wanting some space is on a par with white supremacy. What its actually on a par with is black only events, like the MOBOs. Are you complaining about the MOBOs? Probably not, unless you are a racist. I will leave you to draw your own inference about what it says about you that you don't support women's spaces.

And I totally agree with vestal. How precisely do we distinguish a man who will assault us from one who wont?

And I'm not sure I like this idea that all men are an assault waiting to happen

Not all men, but any man.

Just like if I put 10 envelopes on the table, and put £10 in one, then not all the envelopes have £10 in, but any of the envelopes could - and I have no way to tell without looking.

Women's tent that lets men in is pointless - do you really think that there won't be enough blokes out of all the blokes going to Glastonbury, that won't be happy to stroll up and say "I'm a woman, let me in" in order to gain access to whatever perceived benefits are available, and yes, quite likely they're just an immature troublemaker, but sometimes they're going to be a predator instead.

... - but all men ARE Schroedinger's rapist/assaulter, and there's nothing I can do about that.

Well that is indisputable. I'd say it must make your life hellishly difficult to navigate in mixed spaces - on transport, Tescos, in the pub - but anywhere were there are men, you can be at risk of assault. So can I.

Similarly, people with dark skin are Schroedinger's terrorists and Schroedinger's suicide bombers, waiting to blow me, you and everyone else into tiny bits. I suppose the question in both cases is - how much do we worry about it, and how far do we take precautions. How about segregated flights? It would mean that me and my wife would have to take separate planes on our hols, but it's a small price to pay for not getting blown out of the sky.

Any like minded group of individuals ought to be allowed to restrict access to itself. Its really is nobody else business but theirs. Women only groups, Men only groups - bring it on.

My DD's analogy is this;

You are offered a bowl of M&Ms.

One in 20 of them is poisoned. Only one in 20, though.

Do you risk it and eat one? Or are you wary of all the sweets because of the one in 20?

I can't believe what I've read... If all men are schroedingers rapist that can be applied to women as ive seen reports across all types of relationships women are more domestically violent. And I would argue being a woman is not like being black. Black people are a minority men and women are split pretty evenly.

Black people are a minority

Maybe in Western Europe, but not in other regions.

Do you risk it and eat one? Or are you wary of all the sweets because of the one in 20?

The actual numbers of rapists are more like three in 20, (and that's being generously assuming not all men who want to rape would actually do it) but aside from that, nice analogy.

It's surprising women still want to socialize with men at all.

You'd sure not eat those potentially poisoned M&Ms if you knew you'd not get any medical help, but instead would be told that you ought to have known it was poisoned.

Just so much clear a mean between straight and gay relationships combined, not that they are more violent in every solitary group

Of course grimarse but events such as the MOBOs are generally held in predominantly white populated countries.

"Similarly, people with dark skin are Schroedinger's terrorists and Schroedinger's suicide bombers"

I lived in New York City when September 11 happened. I lived in New York City when men at a street parade started ganging up to strip and sexually assault women on the street in broad daylight at a parade in Manhattan.

www.nytimes.com/2000/06/13/nyregion/35-scary-minutes-women-tell-police-of-assaults-in-park.html?pagewanted=all

Go ahead and ask me which event, added to my accumulated experiences with thousands of men in New York's rainbow of colors, made me more afraid to walk the streets of New York City.