This is getting out of control - Ladyfest

[Chickpeasandpakchoi]

Has banned the use of the word 'clitoris' at its feminist festival as it it trans exclusionary.
www.feministcurrent.com/2016/06/03/german-ladyfest-clitoris-exclusionary/
I hope it is boycotted by women. How DARE they tell us we cannot celebrate and talk about our female anatomy?

Petal: re this male/female brain thing, perhaps it would be a good idea to read some serious research about neuroplasticity and the way that behaviour, thought, the environment, life experiences etc. cause changes in the brain.

i just know my brain is female

I know my brain is female because the rest of my body is female, so it sort of figures.
Outside weird cases where someone has parts of their fraternal twin inside them, the brain is usually the same sex as the body.

Why does the theory of no sex difference between brains remind you of Stepford Wives? I mean, that book was about men being frustrated by the fact that women are actually human, just like them, and wanted to change it.

Hm. Perhaps we should open another trans thread and take the discussion there.

Back to the Ladyfest ... I should have suspected something when I noticed the .

Does anyone speak German? How are German women reacting to this on twitter etc?

And can I point out that even though the people in charge of this believe the word "clitoris" to be transphobic in this context, they have clearly failed to realise that their reference to "female anatomy" is just as transphobic going by the same reasoning. A penis and scrotum are female anatomy if you feel female . Or so I have been informed.

Penguin - same. It's just different child personalities.

Need, my older boy gravitated towards cars as a toddler. My youngest boy loves pink and has a baby doll. My eldest isn't any more of a boy than my youngest, they just like different things. The youngest is far more rough and tumble actually and play fights a lot more but if I take him for a walk he will chirrup 'pink flower!' every time he sees one with great delight because he loves them. He will always pick the pink option of anything if there is a choice.

Bad form to bring other threads into this, TiggyD, but since you have, it's worth pointing out that you have a long track record of being, shall we say, deliberately provocative on the feminist boards. You are also (if memory serves me) very much of the "if a transwoman says she's a woman, she is" school of thought, regardless of whether that transwoman has a fully functioning penis or not.

For the record I do not believe that all or even most transwomen are rapists. Some however, undoubtedly are (Davina Ayrton for example). And furthermore, as has been explained over and over again, there is the worry that men who are not trans but who are sexual predators will take advantage of sloppily drafted laws (gender self-identification) to gain access to women's spaces. This is not just an idle worry on the part of radfems - the professional body representing psychologists who work in British prisons put in a written submission to Maria Miller's parliamentary committee to raise this worry.

No we don't but apart from a baby group we go to where no one but me and his sister interact with him, he doesn't really get a chance go be influenced by society. Yet

Surely he is occasionally in the room when the TV is on?

They didn't so much as raise the memory Lurcio as to flag that this was already happening.

Tv can't influence that... Can it?!

Petal I'm with you on the confusion and I have dipped my toe into the feminist threads. I'm non the wiser and layman's terms are thin on the ground. Loads of links but a bit high brow and intellectual for me.

*raise the worry

I'm only understanding half of what I'm reading,I'm trying to keep up and join the debate ,but I keep loosing the thread with the words I don't understand😪

Does anyone speak German? How are German women reacting to this on twitter etc?

I am from Germany. I am not on twitter, but so far, have found only one or two radical feminists from Germany on the internet. (Absolutely none at all in real life) Didn't know the one interviewed by Feminist Current even existed.

If it helps, I am shocked by this development.

Most German feminists seem to be converted to genderism. I haven't been able to find a feminist platform in German language that is not - that's why I'm here.

If any of you want to start a hashtag, like #justrenameitsausagefest, or whatever, I'd be happy to translate German reactions to you.

Have done a quick google search in German, about Lady*fest banning the term clitoris. The Feminist Current article was the only thing to be found referring to this - after that, it was only porn. (Perhaps there was more after the porn, but I am not too keen on reading even description of porn.)

Would anyone be willing to do me a list of all the words and what they mean?

Are men allowed to talk about their penises or prostates or testicles or is that upsetting to trans-men who might not have them? Hmm, I wonder...

NeedacleverNN, TV reflects society and therefore your 15 month old baby is exposed to a greater or lesser extent to societal messages and expectations. He doesn't exist in a vacuum. I really don't think a 15 month old is too young to start to pick things like that up.

KathyBeale

I wish trans men would do that. I don't think men would bend over backwards to pander to them. Strangely enough, they don't.

Need if you watch kids' channels with adverts on, the ads make society's expectations of boys and girls abundantly clear. Little boys play with cars and superheroes, little girls have dollies to dress up and play make-up. Toy adverts reinforce gender roles incredibly powerful and kids love to watch them.

Additionally, we see what we want to. If my youngest was a girl I'd be marvelling about how funny it is that the eldest loves Boy Things and the littlest loves pink and has a doll - but as it happens they are the same sex but just like different things. So in my case study of my own children id say sex has nothing to do with it at all.

• honorary Bavarian here

I couldn't find anything referencing clitgate on the Lady*fest website either. But there was so, so much waffle about 'awareness', boundary violation and safe spaces that it just wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

Thanks Vestal, that's sad but interesting. Although I'm guessing with its history some Germans feel they must be very careful about being inclusive and not being seen to "other" certain groups who identify as persecuted minorities. At least I've heard a few Germans say that in other contexts. Which is rubbish because Germans are typically very well educated and women friendly in other ways. Maybe they do need someone like you to get a conversation started?

What terms/words are you unsure of petal? We'll try to help although urban dictionary can also be useful for that kind of thing.

Trans exclusionary-nary,queer fenmenism,gender queer trans phobia misogynist ,Sanpro

Maybe they do need someone like you to get a conversation started?

I try to talk to all my female friends who aren't political about this, and point out what the dangers are.

With the pro-trans feminists, I found it is like talking against a wall. A very soft, squishy wall that doesn't want to hurt your feelings, but is more invested in catering to trans.

@AuntDotsie: Great, that makes two of us!
Perhaps we should arrange a meeting when we've found five .. not sure it makes sense to try and find more.

But there was so, so much waffle about 'awareness', boundary violation and safe spaces that it just wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

The ironic thing is, this whole shit makes me feel unsafe. I'm a bit paranoid about the whole room of people turning against me because I said something transphobic.

Safest I've ever felt was in the blogs of radfems. Libfem blogs seem to police speech, twist your words around and create an atmosphere of distrust.
But perhaps that's because radfems address the roots of oppression, which is pretty easy to apply to your own country, while libfems get all angry about some politician saying something, and when I point out he could have a point, I'm banhammered because unbeknownst to me, that guy is a known racist, sexist asshole in the US.

Or perhaps it is because most radfems have seen some very bad shit, and won't attack a woman just because she worded something a bit insensitively.