Transgender Toilets

[Clonakiltylil]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3609515/Transgender-woman-wins-landmark-discrimination-case-forcing-ferry-firm-remove-words-ladies-gents-toilets-told-use-disabled-loo.html

And so it begins: litigation regarding toilets.

Here's part of it:

A transgender woman has won a landmark discrimination case forcing a ferry company to remove the words 'ladies' and 'gentlemen' from its toilets.

Condor Ferries has become the first firm to change the gender specific signs on the doors after Erin Bisson proved she was 'humiliated' at being told to use the disabled toilets.

Ms Bisson, formerly known as Robert until she identified herself as a woman, complained to the Jersey Employment and Discrimination Tribunal that she had been discriminated against after the operator banned her from using the 'ladies'.

She argued the use of words rather than symbols on toilets amounted to indirect discrimination.

Do urinals smell worse than toilets Ophelia? Do you really think the bad smell (if true) is an argument against trans people using the toilets that match their gender identity? I think there are legitimate arguments but I'm not sure I'd say that one is a strong one. But if you feel strongly I'd like to know more about your opinion.

singing There are millions of reasons why men should not use women's facilites.

I posted in response to Grimarse saying urinals are fine and dandy in the women's loos because you can't see cock. This would be basically inviting male bodied people to self select to use women's facilities whenever it takes their fancy.

It's about drawing the line isn't it.

And yes, urinals are really putrid and belong in the men's loos.

Men pee standing up, male bodied people pee standing up, I'm not going to check on all trans people who self select to use the ladies whether they have kept the loo seat sanitary, no one is. It's far more effective to have male bodied facilities and female bodied facilities.

Your own comment above 11:29 basically reflects what I think. If you pass, it's common sense to self select, use the facilities that reflect your trans-gender. No one will bat an eyelid and I'm sure this small minority of people are respectful to the female facilities. But let's not invite the whole male population to claim female space willy nilly.

Hygiene is a consideration. Males stand to pee and females sit. We don't want to sit in pee.

I inadvertently went into a toilet (temporary plastic kind, at a cafe / boat hire place that was having building work done) with a urinal in it the other day. I was nearly sick at the smell. I ended up emptying my mooncup in a bush on the island we were sailing to because I wasn't going to risk the lack of hygiene involved in mooncup emptying somewhere as unsanitary as that loo.

And men are significantly more likely than women to not wash their hands, so it's not just psychological.

Firstly, I was just dispelling someone's assertion that penii were on view when you enter a men's loo. They aren't. It would be very odd if they were.

Secondly, I am not suggesting for a second that women should have to tolerate men or trans people in the women's loo. I was trying to say that I am perfectly comfortable with trans people using the men's loo while I am in there. It doesn't bother me. If it bothers women, they should not have to put up with it.

Thirdly, some men's public toilets are funky beyond belief. Most are not. Same goes for women's public toilets. My wife refuses to use them when we are out unless she really has no choice. So let's not assume that all men's toilets are piss-washed swamps and women's are some kind of nirvana. Most of us are pretty clean

Grim, so what if penises aren't directly on view when you walk in? I don't want to have to avoid accidentally seeing penis, ever, even in a public toilet.

Dunno about 'most' - 63% of you don't wash your hands, apparently!
(The corresponding figure for women is 40% which is also a bit shocking IMO.)

how about closing all existing loos and replacing with accessible single cubicles using same space? maybe a few separate urinals
then us crips could join the queue and wait for an equal opp to piss
unlike now

LadyStark - one last time: I don't want women in men's toilets (or men in the women's), so if you are a woman, you won't see a winkie. If you are a trans person, I would not have thought that seeing a penis is an issue. Are you trans? As julia says, maybe we have to start again and have separate individual bogs, with a separate communal urinal for those who want it.

If this 'woman' really knew what it was to be a woman she wouldn't be demanding that the world change to accomodate her seems to me but what do I know

I know this person and they are using their ‘trans’ status to continue with a series of vexatious litigations. Even prior to transition, this person was regularly trying to sue companies at employment tribunals and civil court cases. Her transition to, firstly Mx, then to Miss, has not slowed their appetite for taking businesses to Court.
The Condor situation (toilets etc) was misrepresented as it was not while this person was ‘onboard’ that she was ‘humiliated’ but was, in my view, a set up to get Condor to ‘discriminate’.
Ms Bisson was due to travel on Condor ship the Liberation, and telephoned the Company stating that she was trans and wasn’t sure which toilet she would be able to use. The telephone operator referred her to her supervisor who stated that they should use the toilet that they feel most comfortable with and if still not sure, they could always avail themselves of the disabled toilet if they wished. A perfectly measured response.
This explanation was taken completely out of context and Ms Bisson made a complaint to the Tribunal about discrimination. She employed a human rights lawyer (who now will have nothing to do with the complainant).
At the time, Condor were getting extremely bad press about the service that they were offering to Jersey and Guernsey residents in their efforts to link to both the UK and France. I believe that rather than fighting this action, and to concentrate on improving their service that they capitulated to the demands of Ms Bisson. However, to date, no toilet signs on the boat have been changed and really there was no need to do so.
Ms Bisson has continued to sue anyone that she perceives as stopping her doing anything she wants by always using, as a first port of call, her ‘trans’ status.
She is a taxi driver who has also been in plenty of scrapes with both the authorities and with the public. She often screams at customers if they have got into her cab and said something as innocuous as “alright mate”, bearing in mind that all one can see when getting into the back of a cab, is the back of the driver’s head and gender recognition isn’t always initially possible.

This is why paper trails are important.

? for real Roisin?