Grrr...

[Puffinity]

More of an AIBU but I don't want the AIBU treatment and I know I'll get a more sympathetic hearing here.

I am getting married next month. A while ago we were out and about with future FIL. He was quite insistent the proper form of address for me would be Mrs [partner's first name] [partner's last name], even though he knows I am keeping my own name despite it being a pain in the bum to spell as forrin because 'that's the tradition'. I just grit my teeth and ignored it but FFS, can everyone just collectively fuck off with the importance of tradition?! I said I will not be Mrs [someone else-who-isn't-even-the-same-sex's name], stop being so bloody disrespectful!!!

It's really a personal choice thing, isn't it? You don't automatically legally change your name when married. You just become entitled to use an additional name instead if you choose. It was explained to me that you could choose to use any of the surnames that are on your birth and marriage certificates for your official ID. So you could order a new passport as [Firstname][Mumsurname] or [Firstname][Dadsurname] and marriage expands your choices to include [Firstname][Husbandsurname]. So even at any point into marriage or divorce, you could order a new passport or driving licence as Ms [Firstname][Mumsname] even if you'd never been known by that name before.

i think a lot of people who do choose to change, do it at their own pace. I didn't change it right away. I changed it 5 years into my marriage when DS was born - but on the hospital records he was born as Baby Myname, which really upset DH. Not for patriarchal reasons I hasten to add, but DH is adopted and is physically very dissimilar to the rest of his family, so having a biological family who are indisputably linked to him is very important to him. DS was registered in his name and I changed mine to match. (But only when my passport actually expired, I'm stingy like that.) Mind you the joke was on DH in the end - DH is swarthy and dark-featured and his family are all pale skinned, blue eyed and blond/ginger... as is DS.

It's strange that it upset your DH. It was no comment on him, all hospitals have to refer to the babies by the name of the admitted patient ie the mother, whatever their registered surname will be.

I took DH's name (although the customer of being referred to as Mrs is clearly ridiculous).
I dislike my maiden name for several reasons which would out me and I just like his name better, but I always feel slightly as if I've lost my feminist credentials somehow!! I must admit, it is nice to be the "XXX family" but possibly if I didn't have such a silly maiden name there might have been a way for us both to change our names to something new.

*custom

My kids have a double barrel name (mine & DP), I always knew I would keep my surname, I'm the only girl in our family and I kinda don't want to be the one left out of our strong family unit. Now I have kids I will be keeping my surname but adding my DP's on the end

I took my DH's surname when we got married purely because I wanted us, and our children to all have the same surname, and double barrelling was in no way an option (my very long, foreign maiden name, with a million consonants in it and my very British, one syllable married name do not go together very well at all!).
I have friends who changed to their DH's name when they got married but kept their maiden name for work. One of them is a teacher and is still "Miss X" at work, the other is a doctor who is "Dr X-Y" rather than just "Dr X" as she was before marriage.

I've kept my maiden name as well as use my married name. Im Dr x at work and Mrs Y outside. Although sometimes I'm Dr Y but that's a separate issue. My kids are all Y and I've inserted both names in my passport so we don't get into trouble when I'm at the airport without the dh!

All my friends (I'm not from here) continue to use their maiden names at work. One has double barrelled it. Over here though everyone I know has changed over to their husbands names.

It's obvious why women choose to take their partner's last name.

Women's last names are a)only their father's name anyway b)ugly c)really common d) boring e)really hard to spell. And anyway, they want to have the same name as their children.

Men's last names are a)spontaneously generated b)nice sounding c)dying out d) really interesting e) easy to spell. And are passed automatically to their children by an unquestionable law of nature.

See? It's simple, really.

I do not understand changing names on marriage and I think it's an awful waste of time and effort, especially when half of marriages end in divorce. I have seen friends go through the embarrassment of changing back and it's completely hideous- making public a situation which is really private.
I wish women didn't do it.

Your name though is most likely just that of another man - your father. So it's six of one and half a dozen of the other

This is the stupidest argument and it keeps coming up. My name came from my father but it's fucking mine ok? I'm not borrowing it. That argument follows the line of thought that women are the property of men and that surnames are used to denote which man the woman belongs to. Women's surnames belong to them as much as men's do. To believe otherwise is to believe we are less than men. I'm sure you will deny you believe that but unfortunately you have internalised it and you believe it on a subconscious level.

Bertrand wasn't direct ing that at you specifically hesterton, just those are the various things that come up on this topic!

I wasn't aiming it at anyone. I just thought I'd save people time by providing a handy cut out and keep summary of the discussion

Well hesterton that's fine for you if you feel that way. To argue that the same applies to all women is just absurd.

Most people don't choose, though. They just go with the flow.

And as this is on a feminist board- a choice does not become feminist because a woman makes it.

I'm not sure that it's about the choices we make, but about the ideas and social norms around those choices.

Hesterton has enormously valid reasons behind her choice to change her name on marriage. A lot of women do it because that's the social norm, without acknowledging or even knowing about the ideas of chattel that that norm perpetuates.

"I'm saying it is about choice. Don't tell me we can't choose."

Oh please. If it were really and truly a free choice you would have a situation where roughly half of women changed their name and the same figure for men or a lot of double-barrelled names taken on by both the husband and wife.

But we don't do we? We have upwards of 70% of women who take their husband's name and downwards of 1% of men who even consider the idea of taking the idea of their wife''s name or double-barrelling their own.

I'm not blaming those women at all. We all live in society and are subject to its norms and subtle coercions but please, let's call a spade a spade!

"I don't fully understand what you mean. But perhaps that's my flaw. I feel rather upset about this - I think of myself as a feminist and have for 50 years. I don't see why we can't choose the name we want.

I think you may be right and that this is not really the board for me."

Of course you can choose the name you want( and of course it's the board for you) and you obviously have hugely compelling reasons for not wanting to keep your father's name. But most women do not have any reason except "it's what people do". So it's not a choice- it's a process.

I am so sorry you've been upset. Please understand that it's not an attack on you and your choice. It's just that your situation is very unusual and, as the saying goes "hard cases make bad law"

Sorry Hesterton no one means to be harsh on you. Of course you are entitled to change your name but we're looking at the macro picture that's all.

Imagine a man wanted to rid himself of an abusive family. He wouldn't have the same opportunity to change his name or it wouldn't occur to him because those are the norms in our society. No one is saying you individually are to blame for perpetuating that system or that you're not a feminist. At least I'm not

Hesterton everyone can choose their name. Clearly for you, changing your name has been a positive and meaningful experience.
However - it's not a free choice with no cultural context. Over on another board there is a woman whose fiancé wants to cancel the wedding rather than accept she won't change her name. I have a good friend who has got married and changed her name although she didn't want to - because she felt the pressure from her mother and his parents, not even her husband.
Feminism looks at the cultural context for things that happen to women and examines how they differ to things that happen to men and analyses why this is. It's not simply a case of saying 'I choose this therefore it is a feminist act/choice'

"Over on another board there is a woman whose fiancé wants to cancel the wedding rather than accept she won't change her name"

Oh god that thread is horrendous but sadly not uncommon. That's the thing. There are no threads on reddit (or wherever the men frequent) worrying about upsetting the apple cart by not taking their wife's name. It's just something they don't have to think about.