Ched Evans wins appeal

[Childrenofthestones]

Sorry I can't link but it's on the BBC site.

Yes that's what I thought the attorney general would be able to influence.

Keir Starmer certainly had influence when he was Head of the CPS (and isn't the Attorney General effectively his boss?). He did a lot of work on trying to influence judges and juries with regards language used and myths surrounding rape trials. In fact, isn't it from the work he did that sexual history shouldn't be admitted into court as a default? I may be wrong on that.

But to suggest that Attorney General couldn't influence how cases are tried going forward seems a bit odd.

I have been following this re-trial but may have missed some of it - at any point was Clayton's comment to the receptionist mentioned in court as I think that is crucial - the 'keep an eye on the girl in room 14, she's sick' comment?
I will be gutted if there is a not-guilty verdict and cannot believe the 'new evidence'. Whatever she did before, or after, does not negate the fact that he did not gain consent from the victim.
I was expecting the 'amazing new evidence' to be along the lines of messages uncovered from facebook or similar that showed she knew exactly what was going on - anything less than that was ridiculous for a re-trial!

The new witness claims he didn't know about the £50K reward money until 2 days ago. It just seems a little unlikely, saying as he knew the victim, gave a witness statement at the first trial and for this trial and has a family member who is a friend of Ched's. You'd think it would have come up at some point before the actual trial

Changes to the criminal law are the Home Secretary's pigeon, not the A-G's. The A-G is the Minister responsible for the CPS but stays at a distance from individual charging decisions. There used to be many offences which could only be prosecuted by the consent of the Attorney or his deputy the Solicitor-General but a few years ago the DPP was substituted - to emphasise the independence of the prosecution process from Ministers.

I don't see the relevance of the 'go harder' comment,but I do think that the new witness has painted the woman as someone who habitually gets drunk, pulls and shags someone, says she can't remember it in the morning,and then goes at and does the same thing every week.To me this would seem to say 'this is how I am happy to live my life'

Did the new witness say that the victim couldn't remember having sex with him either?

cadnowyllt has explained it well I think. If the behaviours Ched Evans described seeing, which he said he interpreted as consent, are the same behaviours the victim actually displays when she is enthusiastically consenting then the suggestion is that it is too unlikely to be a coincidence - that Ched described by chance what the victim would, arguably, have actually done if she was enjoying herself. Therefore it creates some doubt as to whether he thought she was consenting by her behaviour and alleged exclamations. The witness may of course be lying or else the jury might think it is not that much of a coincidence.

I am just amazed at how stupid people are. There are people on Twitter seriously claiming that she couldn't have been raped because she didn't say no or try to push him off. They are actually unaware that it is very common for victims to freeze during the attack. I am apparently on a quest for a superior argument for calling someone out on this crap. Aka they don't have a decent counter argument for their victim blaming bullshit.

I am done. This case is giving me actual anxiety I really worry for future rape and abuse victims if he gets found not guilty.

I'm sorry to say this, but rapists will do what they do, and I don't think the conviction of this man will put any man so minded off - nor will his being acquitted lead any man to reason If Evans got away with it, even if he did two and a half years in prison first, I can. Men like that don't reason. If they did there would be no rape.

OK Andrew - so what does that say about the A-G's circle of influence? Can they influence the way certain types of trials are conducted? Can they give guidance, recommend training etc?

yes

And if not the A-G, who would be the person to write to?

Of course rapists will always rape, it's how their dealt with in court that needs to change.

" don't think the conviction of this man will put any man so minded off" Maybe not but it might get some justice for other women.

However, I think you are wrong. I think gradually more and more convictions like this would lead to a sway in public opinion away from "oh he's just been a bit foolish/taking advantage/bit of a lad" towards "he's a rapist" and women do deserve to be treated as human being not objects to fuck.

That in turn will influence the minds of boys and men growing up.

a7mints - was that 'yes' to me

If you want changes in the law of evidence, the Home Secretary.

The A-G has next to no influence on the criminal justice process - which is how it should be.

How do you reduce (you will never eliminate) rape? By the better education of boys. But I don't know where to start in going about it. This whole subject makes me embarrassed to be male - whatever happens to this man.

Like others, I cannot get my head round the antics of his fiancee and her family; on any footing he has done the dirty on her. I have a sort of sympathy with his blood family; not so much his brother but his parents and his sister who have supported him throughout. He's their son, their brother, why wouldn't they. Let us all hope that our sons and brothers never lead us into the same quandary.

It's not true that you can't reduce rape and sexual assault by tackling the offenders. There was an awareness campaign aimed at improving men's understanding of consent and acquaintance / date rape in Canada and it did have a beneficial effect. Actually stigmatising behaviours like shagging passed-out women and so forth, instead of "har-har lads together" "boys will be boys" does work.

I do think that the new witness has painted the woman as someone who habitually gets drunk, pulls and shags someone, says she can't remember it in the morning,and then goes at and does the same thing everyweek.Tome this would seem to say 'this is how I am happy to live my life'

Doesn't that make it even more strange that she would go to the police? If that is what is normal for her, surely she'd only go to the police if there was something different about this specific occasion, something wrong.

I bet she doesn't normally wake up having been so drunk she's wet the bed.

After getting involved in the shit storm on Twitter I can now actually see how people feel so strongly that he is innocent, especially when they're not fully aware of the evidence put forward and refuse to be made aware of it. The rape myths being spouted are very convincing and these new witness statement certainly haven't helped matters. Not to mention it's difficult to provide a reasoned counter argument with limited characters.

I've been called a feminazi this evening, because I disagree with victim blaming. Why am I not surprised, people always resort to name calling when they know their argument is weak

Law of Evidence would be covered by the Justice secretary. The Home Secretary does policing but anything court related is the Justice Secretary.

I think it was the "don't be that guy" campaign.

Actually my thoughts are with the victim rather than any would be rapists.
Why should it be OK for someone to be able to pay to encourage boyfriends to come and discuss their sex life? It's totally unacceptable. That text the victim sent to the new witness shows they were in some form of caring relationship (or she thought they were). It hardly extrapolated to making it OK for any randomer to come and shagging her while drunk.
It will put other victims off reporting, if they think this is what they will get. Surely it does also set a precedent that this kind of evidence is admissable too ?

Scallops - those changes predated Kier Starter, and weren't the down to the CPS. The CPS doesn't have those kinds of powers.

Starmer, even!

Education about rape, perhaps. Education about how women are people and not fuck toys, absolutely.