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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What do people think of this going on at my daughter's primary school?

232 replies

DoctorBeat · 14/04/2016 10:45

Nationalism with some gender stereotyping thrown in for good measure? Girls bring in something sweet?! 😒

What do people think of this going on at my daughter's primary school?
OP posts:
DoctorBeat · 14/04/2016 12:36

Just because YOU are not offended by something, doesn't mean it is NOT offensive to someone else.

OP posts:
guerre · 14/04/2016 12:36

wasps that is hilarious that it is DH's b'day too! Grin
Hope he has a good one (don't forget his present!)

MiniMover · 14/04/2016 12:37

The 'famous Britains' needs pointing out to school though.

DoctorBeat · 14/04/2016 12:38

It is not the first error of its kind on school hand outs...Hmm

OP posts:
JasperDamerel · 14/04/2016 12:39

That whole thing makes me feel a little bit uneasy. For similar events in our school, each child is given a request to bring a particular thing, eg fruit, sandwiches, crisps.

Regarding the Britishness thing, I think that it's a pointless without any background teaching about Britain, and is basically a way of reinforcing everyone's stereotypes. It might have been nice, for instance, to look at different counties or regions with famous people, foods, events and traditions for each one, and had each class do something to do with their particular county.
Or look at folk music and folk tales.
Or look at the story of St George and have a knights and dragons day.
Or learn about what schools are like in a few other countries and what is different and special about their school.

WellErrr · 14/04/2016 12:40

The overwhelming majority here think it is not offensive.

I will go further; as a feminist, I feel that pearl clutching about non-issues such as this does quite a lot of harm to the cause.

NewStartNewName · 14/04/2016 12:43

Mini it's just a non-issue, like I said my DSs have been asked to bring both on different occasions, it's got nothing to do with anything more than food, people just like to have something to object to. No matter how they assigned it, someone somewhere would have been "offended" as it seems to be a lot of people's favourite past time.

stumblymonkey · 14/04/2016 12:43

I think it's a good thing to celebrate being British...I don't think this excludes non-British children at all. If I lived in another country I wouldn't be at all offended if they held a celebration of their own culture.

Neither am I offended by the boy/girl split...just seems a practical way of ensuring a 50/50 split of savoury and sweet foods.

DD can go as Boudicca or Elizabeth I and fly the feminism flag that way instead of some insipid make believe Disney princess

Helbelle75 · 14/04/2016 12:47

Completely agree LauraChant. I'm not sure I agree with the term British Values, at it can be interpreted so differently to the intention.
I don't think I'd be worried about it. Maybe they could have divided it differently, but not an issue I don't think.

DoctorBeat · 14/04/2016 12:47

I'll go further - throwing around the "professionally offended" trope in a perfectly legitimate conversation feeds into the MRAs hands and does a lot to harm the cause.

If you can't even see the gender bias here, regardless of whether you find it personally offensive or not, or that others (of which there are some, actually) also says it makes them feel uncomfortable, then I think that does more harm to the cause, actually.

OP posts:
WellErrr · 14/04/2016 12:50

But you ARE being wilfully offended.

It's a 50/50 split, worded neutrally.

If it had been 'and all our sweet little girlies bring something just as sweet as you!' or something then I would agree with you.
But it's not.

PresidentCJCregg · 14/04/2016 12:51

Jasper, I would imagine they look at lots of other countries and cultures over the course of the year. Spending one day on Britain doesn't negate everything else they learn about other cultures.

MiniMover · 14/04/2016 12:53

You can carry on believing that. After all, the point of the kitten experiment was to show that people have no awareness that it's happening nor would they ever consider it an issue.

DoctorBeat · 14/04/2016 12:55

No I am not being wilfully offended. I just am offended.

I just don't agree with YOU and you can't bear it.

I have never been, or intended to be offended by anything that has come home from school with my dd before. This however does offend me. I cannot help or intend that.

OP posts:
LassWiTheDelicateAir · 14/04/2016 12:57

Anyway more daughter doesn't like sweet food and neither is she sweet so she'll be taking something she likes

Completely missing the point. The food is meant to be shared.

WellErrr · 14/04/2016 12:57

I just don't agree with YOU and you can't bear it.

Yes, I'm sobbing here.

Like this - 😂😂

MiniMover · 14/04/2016 13:00

WellErrr, the point of the kitten experiment was to show that in isolation such a split is perfectly rational and reasonable with no 'side'. Yet, remarkably, without even considering it too much or giving it any real thought, the teachers offered the kittens to the girls. The point being that not one of the teachers involved was being sexist and each would in turn say it was a random allocation. However, it was startling to discover that for whatever reason, almost all the teachers involved offered the fluffy kittens to the 5yr old girls and the boisterous puppies to the 5yr old boys.

I referenced the study not to suggest the school have been deliberately or blatantly sexist. I would totally believe them if they said that no thought went into the assignment. Totally. The point of the kitten/puppy study was to show subliminal choices made along gender stereotypes.

DoctorBeat · 14/04/2016 13:00

And worded neutrally, imo, would be "boys bring sandwiches, girls bring snacks" or vice versa.

Girls = sweet, boys = savoury, does IN MY OPINION have undertones of gender stereotyping.

My first, gut reaction to this was that it annoyed me. I DID NOT WANT OR INTEND TO BE OFFENDED.

If other people are not offended by it or see it as an issue then that is fine. But I do.

OP posts:
KERALA1 · 14/04/2016 13:01

I think the cultural cringe by left leaning liberal types (myself included in that) does quite a lot of harm. I think its good to celebrate our country sometimes. Our quite mono cultural school bends over backwards to celebrate every other culture but our own it seems. Bet things are very different in Spain/France etc.

Its sad that any hint of celebration of "Britishness" conjures up images of far right, shaved heads, exclusion and shouting.

Pipbin · 14/04/2016 13:02

Sorry but I can't see anything to be offended about there.

It's an easy way to get a 50/50 split of food.

And as for celebrating a British day when it is St George's day, Shakespeare's 200th birthday and the Queen's 90th birthday all within couple of days of each other, how dare they?

00100001 · 14/04/2016 13:02

BUt what are you offended by OP?

It doesn't say "Girls should bring sweets because they are girls"

If they had split the school up by year group, e.g Reception-Y3 bring savoury, Y4-Y6 bring sweet. Then you wouldn't be offended by that?

MyFavouriteClintonisGeorge · 14/04/2016 13:03

Just seems horribly exclusive for the very small minority of non-British kids in the school.

Possibly, but please don't assume it will be. They might find it fun, educational, interesting and lots of other positive things. I'm black, half-English and spent many years living in another country. When I eventually came to live in Britain I enjoyed all kinds of (to me) exotic and eccentric pursuits (except country dancing-that was hell) that English people did without feeling uncomfortable. Mostly it was funny.

There is no reason why celebrating a national day has to be difficult for non-nationals. Does anyone who has visited France or lived there feel excluded on Bastille Day? Or in the US on Independence Day? Or do you just enjoy the holiday while rolling your eyes at a few of the more daft aspects of the celebration?

I do agree the boys/girls food thing is stupid and annoying though.

RhombusRiley · 14/04/2016 13:03

I'm with you DR and Mini.

The thing is, on its own and if we actually had total gender equality, this wouldn't matter. It is a small thing, compared to unequal pay or DV rates.

But it is a million, million small things like this that add up to the constant subliminal messages to boys and girls that result i those exact larger-scale sexism problems.

Girls are forever being associated with the sweet, the delicate, the decorative, the less essential, the frivolous, the nice, the yummy, etc.

Boys are associated with the active, the essential, the proactive, the scientific, the tough, the necessary, the adventurous, the world of work. Like the coat hook pics I talked about, or look at kids clothing designs and themes.

In itself on one occasion this may not matter or it may seem minor but taken as a whole, this is what constantly tells women that they should not rock the boat, that they have to be nice and sweet, that they have a duty to look good, that they shouldn't stand up for their rights, that they aren't as important, that they don't have as much of a role in the important stuff, that they are there to cheer people up, etc etc. etc.

And those messages are going to boys too.
That DIRECTLY feeds into situations like in relationships where the woman ends up taking responsibility for buying presents for all his extended family, or feeling like she has to have sex to keep him happy even if she doesn't fancy it, or the man or his mother give her a hard time about her appearance or for working outside the home instead of being a full-time nurturing mother figure, or she doesn't feel she can cause a stink about unfair housework division. And it feeds into women's reluctance to push themselves forward for pay rises or propmotions, and employers' tendencies to see them differently if they do. All these things are documented and often discussed on here. They are CAUSED by endless subliminal, small-scale messages exactly like what Dr has noticed here.

00100001 · 14/04/2016 13:04

" I DID NOT WANT OR INTEND TO BE OFFENDED."
But you went on to say you were offended by it OP. Confused

RhombusRiley · 14/04/2016 13:05

I can't see a problem there -
OP says she does not set out to be offended, did not plan or intend to be offended, but nevertheless was offended by the leaflet so therefore it genuinely offended her, it wasn't because she's looking for things to pick on.

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