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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Remark by the defending barrister in a recent acquaintance rape trial

196 replies

Aspensquiver · 28/02/2016 17:34

I was wondering if anyone else feels concerned, as I do, by certain comments made by the defending barrister in the recent rape case concerning a girl student whose alleged rapist, who was a fellow student, was acquitted. The barrister told the jury the girl had got back in bed with Sridhar after the alleged rape and, Joe Stone said: 'Surely if she was raped, the last place on earth she would want to return to would be that room.'

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12172708/Cambridge-student-found-not-guilty-of-rape.html There are also various other newspaper reports of stages of the trial which can be found on-line.

I understand the defending barrister had the duty to use all means at his disposal to get an acquittal for the accused. But allowed clever oratory at any expense aside - on top of the fact that most date rape cases will inevitably end in acquittal - it is chilling that such an erroneous, ill-informed and biased statement, might have added weight to the the jurors' decision and to the already confused public perceptions of rape cases like these.

I am not hoping to restart a discussion as to whether or not the accused was in fact guilty, but to question this remark, 'Surely....':

A victim's actual reaction to rape may be very counter-intuitive for a person who has not experienced it let alone for those who may doubt this sort of rape is rape in the first place.

There is no valid "Surely..." in the sense the barrister meant.

Jill Filpovic's article below paragraph 14 for example points out that rape victims may not react as expected.
www.cosmopolitan.com/college/news/a30507/sexual-assault-misconceptions/

In this article even the reaction of going on to have sex with the assailant a later point after the rape is shown to be a possible reaction in order for the victim to feel control. I believe it is also possible for the victim to try to act as if the assailant, who was after all known to her before the rape is in some way a friend so as to try to deny and block out the rape or minimise it. It is also possible for the victim to lose all sense of autonomy or will. I am aware there are three well known reactions to trauma: fight, flight and freezing. This girl may have remain frozen and unable to do anything.

As to all the details of the case it is difficult to be clear, but I believe the girl was in her own room into which the alleged assailant entered too after taking her back home after a night out in the town where they had both been drinking because she was worried about being alone in the town at night. After the alleged rape (presumably having got out of bed at some stage) it was her own bed in her own room she 'went back to'. Far from it being the case that surely this was the last place she would go, in these circumstances it may well be all too likely that this would be what she might do. Where else was she supposed to go other than her own bed? And in what sort of numbed and state of disassociation, or state of exhaustion or state of self blame was she after (allegedly) having been raped?
The next day certainly a friend of hers saw the girl in a terrible state of mind.

Why is it that a court case of this kind can take place without expert third party guidance being given to the judge and jury as to how a rape victim might behave? Instead it would seem that a false premise mooted by the barrister may have tipped the already weighted balance* even further on the side of acquittal.

*It is very difficult for a jury to pass a guilty verdict because there will usually be reasonable doubt in a case like this.

www.channel4.com/news/rape-convictions-myths-why-so-low-england

OP posts:
WomanWithAltitude · 02/03/2016 00:10

Yes, barefoot - if a defendant did instruct a barrister to open with "you are a vile liar", they should refuse. Because it's totally unethical.

PirateSmile · 02/03/2016 00:13

It's hard to comment on cases in the abstract but it sounds as if the prosecutor let you down woman as much as the defence barrister did if he/she didn't at least try to put a stop to their stupid theatricals.

PirateSmile · 02/03/2016 00:15

Barristers do accuse people of lying. I'd be amazed however if they call complainants 'vile liars' but given the experiences on this thread I stand to be corrected.

WomanWithAltitude · 02/03/2016 00:18

The guy got 12 years, so in that respect the prosecution did their job successfully.

The whole system lets victims down as a matter of routine though. I know I'm not unusual in how I was treated, amd I know that it's not at all unusual for the victim's welfare to be seen as bottom of everyone's priority list in the legal process.

PirateSmile · 02/03/2016 00:20

None of the defence barrister's 'tactics' worked then woman I'm so pleased you got some justice. Was this a case in London btw?

BarefootAcrossHotLegoPieces · 02/03/2016 00:21

It's from the link!

"Mr McConnachie had started his cross examination of one of the women who was raped by Begg with the question: "You are a wicked, deceitful, malicious, vindictive, liar?""

So that's worse than "you are a vile liar?"

Even if the prosecution then objects, the jury has still heard that. It leaves an impression. That kind of grandstanding should leave the barrister open to being stood down. It's contemptuous.

Blue2014 · 02/03/2016 00:21

Im so sorry but I feel it's a bit naive to think barristers are simply working from a defendants instructions - the case I was in the jury for? The defendant very clearly had learning difficulties, there is no way he could have instructed the things she's insinuated (he had capacity to get by, but not to have instructed that level of interaction). This all came from her, as did the angry tone, the eye rolling and the dismissive cutting attitude. I work with the legal profession a lot, I want to believe it's fair and right and just and that the people working in are doing the best they can morally. It's not, and they often aren't

BarefootAcrossHotLegoPieces · 02/03/2016 00:22

Of course the tactics worked - they made WoA feel even shitter. Flowers

WomanWithAltitude · 02/03/2016 00:23

Pirate - given that Lord Carloway quoted a barrister saying "You are a wicked, deceitful, malicious, vindictive, liar?" why would you can you be amazed if a barrister said that? The evidence is there - it was said and went unchallenged in open court. It's not just something someone made up.

It would be nice if people started actually listing to women about this stuff, ans the courts took action. This is why women don't report. It's why even those that do report are likely to drop out of the process. It matters.

BarefootAcrossHotLegoPieces · 02/03/2016 00:23

Well said, Blue.

Pirate, you may know lots of lovely barristers; please don't deny there's plenty of unlovely ones too

PirateSmile · 02/03/2016 00:24

All those words are different ways of saying liar. Vile is something quite different.

WomanWithAltitude · 02/03/2016 00:24

Yes, my case was in London.

WomanWithAltitude · 02/03/2016 00:24

Malicious doesn't mean liar!

BarefootAcrossHotLegoPieces · 02/03/2016 00:25

The HELL?

Vindictive and malicious are not synonyms for liar.

WomanWithAltitude · 02/03/2016 00:25

And neither does wicked or vindictive!

PirateSmile · 02/03/2016 00:25

And no, I'm not saying it's right to use them before everybody jumps on me! I've already said I know nothing about Scotland and I'm glad the judge has attacked the advocate!

MardyGrave · 02/03/2016 00:25

I can truly say that I would find the ordeal of reporting the crime of rape and going through the process of a criminal trial as the victim of a rape more traumatic than the assault itself. I know because I made the informed choice to accept what had happened to me on my own terms in private, without a doubt in my mind that a public trial of this nature would have broken me.

I'm not alone.

BarefootAcrossHotLegoPieces · 02/03/2016 00:26

Nor is wicked.

Deceitful - you can have that one.

The barrister was clearly going for hyperbole to make an impact. Did his client dictate those words to him?

BarefootAcrossHotLegoPieces · 02/03/2016 00:27

Flowers Mardy

If victims are too intimidated by these sorts of practices to go to court, there's not much justice being done, is there?

Blue2014 · 02/03/2016 00:27

I've also worked with (and personally know) victims who've been on the brink of suicide after court appearances. I have a friend who had flashbacks for years about the barristers interrogation (she was 14 at the time of the offence, it was a stranger rape case, the barrister absolutely made it clear he thought it was her fault) the legal system is immoral, and I truly believe that people who don't believe that just haven't seen enough of it

WomanWithAltitude · 02/03/2016 00:27

It was the appeal judge who criticised ot as well pirate. The original trial judge let it stand.

WomanWithAltitude · 02/03/2016 00:29

Well said blue & barefoot.

Mardy - I absolutely understand why women don't report. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone unless it's they're prepared for an incredibly rough ride, with little chance of a good outcome.

PirateSmile · 02/03/2016 00:30

I would say malicious can mean liar. One of it's definitions is defamatory. As for vindictive, I would also say it can be ascribed to also mean liar. Bloody horrible words to use though so once again, please don't take it out of context and attack me!

PirateSmile · 02/03/2016 00:31

Are you saying that criminal barristers are all immoral blue?

WomanWithAltitude · 02/03/2016 00:32

You can't just change the meaning of words... they don't mean 'liar'. Not when applied to a person (as opposed to an accusation - a malicious accusation would be false, a malicious person is just nasty).

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