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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Remark by the defending barrister in a recent acquaintance rape trial

196 replies

Aspensquiver · 28/02/2016 17:34

I was wondering if anyone else feels concerned, as I do, by certain comments made by the defending barrister in the recent rape case concerning a girl student whose alleged rapist, who was a fellow student, was acquitted. The barrister told the jury the girl had got back in bed with Sridhar after the alleged rape and, Joe Stone said: 'Surely if she was raped, the last place on earth she would want to return to would be that room.'

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12172708/Cambridge-student-found-not-guilty-of-rape.html There are also various other newspaper reports of stages of the trial which can be found on-line.

I understand the defending barrister had the duty to use all means at his disposal to get an acquittal for the accused. But allowed clever oratory at any expense aside - on top of the fact that most date rape cases will inevitably end in acquittal - it is chilling that such an erroneous, ill-informed and biased statement, might have added weight to the the jurors' decision and to the already confused public perceptions of rape cases like these.

I am not hoping to restart a discussion as to whether or not the accused was in fact guilty, but to question this remark, 'Surely....':

A victim's actual reaction to rape may be very counter-intuitive for a person who has not experienced it let alone for those who may doubt this sort of rape is rape in the first place.

There is no valid "Surely..." in the sense the barrister meant.

Jill Filpovic's article below paragraph 14 for example points out that rape victims may not react as expected.
www.cosmopolitan.com/college/news/a30507/sexual-assault-misconceptions/

In this article even the reaction of going on to have sex with the assailant a later point after the rape is shown to be a possible reaction in order for the victim to feel control. I believe it is also possible for the victim to try to act as if the assailant, who was after all known to her before the rape is in some way a friend so as to try to deny and block out the rape or minimise it. It is also possible for the victim to lose all sense of autonomy or will. I am aware there are three well known reactions to trauma: fight, flight and freezing. This girl may have remain frozen and unable to do anything.

As to all the details of the case it is difficult to be clear, but I believe the girl was in her own room into which the alleged assailant entered too after taking her back home after a night out in the town where they had both been drinking because she was worried about being alone in the town at night. After the alleged rape (presumably having got out of bed at some stage) it was her own bed in her own room she 'went back to'. Far from it being the case that surely this was the last place she would go, in these circumstances it may well be all too likely that this would be what she might do. Where else was she supposed to go other than her own bed? And in what sort of numbed and state of disassociation, or state of exhaustion or state of self blame was she after (allegedly) having been raped?
The next day certainly a friend of hers saw the girl in a terrible state of mind.

Why is it that a court case of this kind can take place without expert third party guidance being given to the judge and jury as to how a rape victim might behave? Instead it would seem that a false premise mooted by the barrister may have tipped the already weighted balance* even further on the side of acquittal.

*It is very difficult for a jury to pass a guilty verdict because there will usually be reasonable doubt in a case like this.

www.channel4.com/news/rape-convictions-myths-why-so-low-england

OP posts:
WomanWithAltitude · 01/03/2016 22:26

Nobody can say they all are. But of the ones I've seen in action (and from the sound of it Felicia too, and the victim in the case referenced in the op), it's 100%.

WomanWithAltitude · 01/03/2016 22:27

The barrister who questioned me openly lied in court. The judge made her apologise to me the next day, after they'd checked the tapes.

PalmerViolet · 01/03/2016 22:28

The way women are treated in court is one of the reasons why women don't report.

And the tiny proportion of women who's cases actually get to court and are treated this way by defence briefs get little offered to them in the way of counselling either. It's a postcode lottery, and is generally provided by charities even if it's available.

Of course even rapists deserve a defence, but the way it's done must be looked at. Especially when you have 15 year old children being told that they are bare faced liars by the briefs of men who have already admitted to committing sexual offences against them.

Blue2014 · 01/03/2016 22:29

I'm sorry pirate, I don't agree - I have friends who are barristers (not defending rapists thank god!) and they very much propose any argument they can to win the case.

I've been a jury member of a rape trail. It was terrifying how leading the barristers questions were and how many members of the jury assumed these leading questions to be facts because the barrister was confident, well spoken and verbally able. It's incredibly surprising how easy it is to manipulate the information to convince others

WomanWithAltitude · 01/03/2016 22:34

The way women are treated in court is one of the reasons why women don't report.

Yes - it is so important. And I could never unreservedly advise a woman to report knowing what it actually involves. (I wouldn't advise against it, but you have to go in with your eyes open).

Rapists go free because defence teams are more than willing to promote rape myths, and juries will believe it. It's not a morally neutral thing - any defence that relies on rape myths is part of the problem, part of rape culture.

PirateSmile · 01/03/2016 22:34

The difficulty is, as you say, everybody is entitled to defend themselves. That's why the process is so horrible for the complainants. I don't know any other way in which justice could be served and I've no doubt that mistakes are made, but I maintain that most people prosecuting and defending will simply try to do their best.
I'm not sure what you mean by defendants who have admitted to sexual offences instructing their lawyer to call the complainant a bare faced liar? Do you mean for other offences?

WomanWithAltitude · 01/03/2016 22:35

Thinking about it, how many rape cases have I seen reported where the defence has simply put the case, with no attempt at using rape myths and character assassination....? I can't call one to mind, that's for sure.

PirateSmile · 01/03/2016 22:36

Blue Are
You saying you have friends who have told you that other barristers will put forward any argument they can to defend a rapist? If so, they should be reporting them to professional standards.

WomanWithAltitude · 01/03/2016 22:37

She's talking about the Sunderland footballer. It's been in the news recently.

He admitted grooming her (after previously claiming innocence) but she's the one being painted as a liar in relation to the other charges. Even though he lied for months before pleading guilty to grooming.

WomanWithAltitude · 01/03/2016 22:38

You really think calling a 15 year old a bare faced liar (when so far it's the defendant who's been shown to be lying on at least two charges) is ok?

WomanWithAltitude · 01/03/2016 22:39

And it's obvious he only admitted grooming because the evidence was such that he couldn't realistically do otherwise.

PirateSmile · 01/03/2016 22:39

Ah yes. It's not a good idea to talk about any ongoing case but all I would say is that it's a matter for the jury to work that one out...

WomanWithAltitude · 01/03/2016 22:41

We're not commenting on his guilt re: the charges he pled not guilty to. We're commenting on the behaviour and tactics of the defence. Which were despicable.

WomanWithAltitude · 01/03/2016 22:42

They were despicable regardless of whether he is guilty or not.

PirateSmile · 01/03/2016 22:43

I'm not going to try to defend any individual. All I'm saying is that criminal barristers don't pluck defences out of the air. They can only act on their client's instructions. If a barrister acts in the way that's been suggested in here that's a serious breach of their professional standards.

WomanWithAltitude · 01/03/2016 22:44

So why do the courts not stop it? The prosecution can intervene. The judge can stop it. But funnily enough this doesn't seem to happen, and it carries on being standard practice....

WomanWithAltitude · 01/03/2016 22:46

And I love the use of the word 'if'. It implies it might not be happening, when all the evidence shows that it does happen, regularly.

This sort of thing is reported in the press regularly ffs! And yet there are no professional consequences for those doing it...

ABetaDad1 · 01/03/2016 22:48

I have given evidence in a number of civil cases and been cross examined by QCs and high court judges. I am convinced that the adversarial system does not assist in the presentation of evidence or unearthing of the truth. I am a highly skilled expert in command of my facts up against a barrister briefed by their client.

A traumatised individual is not in that position and at a massive disadvantage.

WomanWithAltitude · 01/03/2016 22:52

They also aren't trying to make you look slutty/dishonest/malicious either, I guess? (If you're there as an expert witness)

I agree that the adversarial system is not the best way of establishing the truth, or achieving any semblance of 'justice'.

PirateSmile · 01/03/2016 22:53

Sadly, no system is perfect. Better training would be a start. Fwiw is agree with everything that's been said about rape myths. I was sexually assaulted myself as a teenager by much older man in a position of authority and when I look back everything I did was contrary to everything I think I should have done. However, all I want to say is that most (I agree not all) lawyers are good people doing a horrible job. They don't make stuff up, any half decent advocate would class making a defendant cry in cross examination as a failure in their skill as a lawyer. I've seen somebody I know who has to do this sort of horrible case regularly break down in tears when reading statements. These people are not all posh, arrogant twats. They are mothers, fathers too.

WomanWithAltitude · 01/03/2016 23:02

Making a defendant cry?

WomanWithAltitude · 01/03/2016 23:05

I don't think it's poor training that's the issue tbh. They want to win the case. Because that's how they attract more work. So they use the tactics they know will work, and rape myths and character assassination work. It's as simple and as depressing as that.

The defendant tells them the case he wants to put, his version of events, but the questioning tactics are defined by the professionals.

BarefootAcrossHotLegoPieces · 01/03/2016 23:05

Well said BetaDad

PirateSmile · 01/03/2016 23:05

Sorry. Meant complainant. I'm tired...

PirateSmile · 01/03/2016 23:07

If you think they all take pleasure from 'winning' a case, I have to disagree with you.

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