Transgender thoughts from a transgender

[ripples101]

Hi

I recently joined mumsnet in order to post some of my thoughts on another thread that was active on this site at that time. After I did so, I received, from many of you, really positive, encouraging feedback. After I did so, I received no negative thoughts from any of you. And for that, I want to take this opportunity to thank you all.

The reason why I've decided to create this thread is to expand on what it means to me to be transgender, and to share with you all my concerns in regards to issues that are being discussed currently in the public sphere. I want to say right now that my thoughts relate to my own experiences as a biological male who identifies and presents as society would dictate a biological female to present.

First of all, I want to make it clear that while I am transgender, my own thoughts in regards to being identified as such do not sit well with me at all, to the point that I actually want to "revoke" my trans identity. For what this "identity" is seemingly intent on becoming is something that I can no longer identify with. This creates somewhat of a "catch 22" situation for me in the sense of how do I actually go forward and identify myself if the label that was once most suited to encapsulating who I am no longer has any resonance with me?

The only answer I've been able to come up with in response to that question is that I have to formulate my own identity, and in doing so only hope that others can understand what that identity may be. At the time of writing this post, I've failed in that regard. For no matter what word I use, others will already have a preconceived idea of what the word that I may end up using actually means. And so it remains difficult for me to be able to correctly and succinctly express to others who I am and how I wish to be regarded.

I'm going to start by providing an analogy. An analogy that I personally think encompasses the issue that every single transgender experiences. An analogy that gets right to the heart of the very meaning behind identifying oneself in terms of the gender presuppositions that are put on every single one of us.

The analogy that I'm going to use, somewhat aptly, somewhat ironically, relates to the word "binary", and what it means in computer/mathmatical terminology. That is, "1" and "0". For the sake of this analogy, let's say biological females equal "1", whereas biological males equal "0". For the sake of this analogy, there is nothing in between. No 0.5. No 1.5. Only ever "1" and "0". Now let's assume that in the case of a transgender person who was born male, all they have ever known is 0. Yet they don't feel happy as a 0. The only other alternative that is open to them in order to escape their own unhappiness at being 0 therefore is to become (or at least identify as being) 1. Yet they have no experience of what it actually means to be a 1. All they know is that being 1 allows them to escape from their actual identity of being a 0.

What I am getting at by using this analogy I hope is clear to everyone here. To bring it down to a personal level, if I am not happy being male, then the only other alternative open to me is to identify as, express myself as, a female. And the only way I can do that is to push away my male identity and present as female, using signifiers that society and culture dictates are traditionally associated with the opposite sex. Such signifiers being pronouns, clothes, body shape, societal roles, etc.

It's for this reason that I believe so many transgendered people, after transitioning, remain unhappy. For while they may have "escaped" the gender that they can't associate/identify with, the gender to which they have escaped to doesn't resonate with them either. When the only option from escaping from "0" is to become "1", then it's only after becoming "1" that they will then know if "1" is actually what they really needed to become. Put simply, there is no guarantee that that actually is the case, and the only way to find whether it is or isn't, is to experience both.

This leads me to a conclusion that I can not escape from. That conclusion being, a transgender person is simply unhappy being with and of themselves. And that is a frightening thought, and I say that as a transgender person myself.

The only comfort I can garner from this is not to identify as either a 1 or 0. As either male or female. Not something in between, just simply as neither. To put it succinctly, not feeling like a man doesn't make me a woman. To put it even more succinctly, how can I possibly say that I feel like a woman if I've only ever been a man?

Yet this is what you will hear transgender people say all the time. I can only conclude that I, and others who have said such a thing, simply have no idea what such a comment actually means. All I can ever say is that I'm not happy being male. And I can see now that the idea that "not happy being male" must therefore somehow equate to being female is an incredibly offensive thought process to have to those that actually are female.

MrsNora,

It isn't easy to write in one sense, but it is easy to write in another.

For me it's all about respect. I am encroaching on an online space which is dedicated to women expressing their views and opinions. In short, the only reason why I even felt compelled to post here in the first place is because what was actually being discussed held a lot of resonance with me. Put simply, the issues that have been expressed on this board are issues that I agree with.

I was a member of a crossdressing site. At the time I wrote my first post here, I submitted a post on that site that reflected the issues that I have expressed here. The responses I received on that site completely missed my point - so much so that in many ways it cemented my intent to revoke to transgender identity. In short, the responses I received expressed a view that was selfish - all about themselves, even to the point that I shouldn't even be allowed to refer to myself using male pronouns on that forum, because the other members were more comfortable with referring to me using female pronouns.

What was important to them was how they referred to me, not how I wanted to be regarded as. What was important to them was what made them feel comfortable, not what made me feel comfortable. As as result, even my username, which admittedly was a female name, conflicted with me, yet I couldn't even change that. And the crux - I can't even delete my own profile from that site. That profile no longer belongs to me, and there's absolutely zilch I can do about that. The only way I can get my profile deleted is to offend the other users so much that I get banned. I don't want to do that, and so it remains there. I guess the the reason/logic behind that being that it swells their numbers, which in turn helps their advertising. They simply do not want the few members they have to ever be able to leave.

I haven't posted their since. Nor will I ever visit that site again. Despite that, my profile will remain a head count for their own satisfaction.

But that's just an online website. Well, I say it's just an online website. I still have my day-to-day real life to live. As we all do. What conflicts the most with me, given the issues in regards to trans topics is not that I'm in danger of being abused online, but rather ignored. I'm still abused, that's to be expected, so that doesn't hurt. What does hurt however is not being listened to. Even on a site that is supposed to support who I am. I'm a trans person, and the trans community doesn't want to listen to me because THEY don't like what I have to say.

It seems there's only value in that community for the ones who fall in line. I don't want to fall in line with them for one reason. I don't agree with the direction in which that line is heading.

I'm not unaware of the irony of what I'm about to type.

Your experience with the forum which you describe has some echoes with the recent mansplaining thread on MN. Have you read that thread? Basically many (many) women were discussing their experiences, but along came a couple of male posters to tell those women why what they were describing wasn't true. Or they were experiencing it "wrong". Or that it doesn't happen in the way they describe. Or that their feelings were invalid in some other way.

That happens a lot.

It sounds as though what you experienced on that thread was exactly that same denial of an experience that doesn't fit with the world view of those "in charge" (the Transactivists on that forum). As expressed in ignoring, isolating and, in turn, silencing.

I'm glad you're not silent on here.

CoteDAzur

"Have you always felt that you had to find and define an identity for yourself? Or do you feel that this is imposed on you by society?"

Yeah, a bit of both in all honesty. From a young age I liked what I liked. The earliest memory of this I have is now going to sound silly. I was around 4/5 years old, and along with my older sister (2 years older than me), we were being babysat. Something made me cry, I can't remember what. What I do remember however is the little crystals (tear drops) that appear in your vision when you cry, and to me they looked like a tiara forming around my eyes. I felt like I was wearing a tiara as I sat there and cried. That tiara image gave me comfort. Stopped me from crying. I must have looked stupid to the babysitter who was trying to comfort me (to her I was probably going crosseyed trying to focus on the tear drops).

That memory leads into your second question:

"I am asking, because I can't remember having spent a single moment thinking about what my identity is. And that as a person of unusual upbringing who speaks multiple languages and lives in a country far from her place of birth."

Why would I even think, as such a young child, that a tiara was for princesses? Where have I learned that information from? Because I MUST have LEARNED it from SOMEWHERE?

Another time. My sister got a gray skirt to wear for her primary school uniform. I got gray trousers. I went to bed and cried. My parents interpreted this as me being scared to start school. I was just upset that I got trousers and my sister got a skirt. I was 4 years old. Where did that feeling come from? Me, personally, I believe it come from the simple fact that the skirt was given to my sister. Who was a girl. I wanted what she had because she was a girl. Yet the only reason she got the skirt was because she was a girl!

Your third question:

"On a slightly different note: Would you say that women are freer in how we live/look? That is, we can wear whatever we want (trousers, dress, shorts, jackets, vests) or wear make-up or not, wear our hair long or short, etc whereas men are expected to have short hair and can't wear skirts, dresses, or makeup?"

Yes, I recall having a conversation that relates to this a while back with a guy who wasn't aware that I was trans. My argument revolved around women having so much more fashion choices than men. And I felt jealous of that. I said to him something along the lines of "I'm not saying I'm a crossdresser or anything like that. I'm just saying that I wish men's fashion was as diverse as women's fashion was. That us men had more choice in what we had to wear.

Thank you for that insight, ripples.

"Why would I even think, as such a young child, that a tiara was for princesses? Where have I learned that information from? Because I MUST have LEARNED it from SOMEWHERE?"

No doubt. From movies, cartoons, books? Princesses with tiaras are everywhere. I don't think there is anything wrong or even surprising in a child wanting to be like a beautiful, glamorous, victorious, and well-loved (no, adored) character in a fairy tale.

It sounds like you loved beauty as a child and still do. Is that wrong for a man? Do you feel that you could be happy as a man if society let you live as you like, expressing your beauty as you want to?

If you don't mind me asking another question: Do you think you would still want to be a woman if people didn't wear clothes, makeup, or jewellery and instead lived naked like other animals, women as well as men?

Cote:

" Do you feel that you could be happy as a man if society let you live as you like, expressing your beauty as you want to?"

Simple answer: Yes

"Do you think you would still want to be a woman if people didn't wear clothes, makeup, or jewellery and instead lived naked like other animals, women as well as men?"

This is more difficult to answer, but I suspect that whatever answer I give has it's basis in my answer to your first question. For the purposes of this response, and to be totally honest with you, the first thought that popped into my head when I read your question was to answer it with a no.

Yet after thinking about it (which maybe I shouldn't do, maybe I should just go with my first instincts), I can only begin by answering your question with another question that I ask myself: Would I want to wear a skirt if skirts wear the kind of clothes that men wear?

Am I attracted to women's fashion because it is women wearing it, or am I attracted to women's fashion because, irrespective of gender, I simply like that style?

Hand on heart, I would have to say, the former - because it is women who wear that style. I think the reason why I like that style is because it's something that can distance me from being the gender that I actually am, and that my current identity is something that I don't really like to be. Does that makes sense?

This is kind of what I was getting at with my binary analogy in my OP.

It's really so very difficult to encapsulate into words. I am not out to any of my family and only a few of my friends as transgender for this reason. I am out to some of my other friends and some of my family as gay however (the one's I'm not out to - the reason being because I just couldn't cope with their bigotry and therefore just didn't want to experience it being directed towards myself). That said, it's easier to explain to others being gay. If I now come out as transgender, and if I take that to it's (now) logical extreme, that would mean that I wasn't actually gay at all! It becomes a linguistic minefield, and would result in questions being asked that I am simply not able to answer.

In all honesty, I am growing tired of leading what is effectively a double life. What makes it harder is that I'm struggling to accept myself. That struggle is based around the definitions that are now being, for want of a better word, coerced onto others. So should I say that those words relate to me, for the simple reason that I can't find a better word or description that relates to me? Even doing that just makes me feel that even after I would have "so-called come out", even then I still wouldn't really be describing myself honestly to other people.

Mrs Nora

I haven't read the mansplaining thread, but what you say actually does resonate a lot with me. Your words "a denial of experience" is especially something that resonates.

The mere arrogance of someone telling someone else that what they are experiencing is not actually what they are experiencing, and that they know better, is just shameful.

I think that, in that sense, your "denial of experience" phrase encapsulates that entirely.

ripples - I really really hope that you will stick around. Your insight and introspection are very valuable contribution to MN on trans issues.

"Do you feel that you could be happy as a man if society let you live as you like, expressing your beauty as you want to?
Simple answer: Yes"

Then would you not say that what you want, really, is not to become a woman but to become... free?

"Do you think you would still want to be a woman if people didn't wear clothes, makeup, or jewellery and instead lived naked like other animals, women as well as men?"
... the first thought that popped into my head when I read your question was to answer it with a no."

As above.

"I ask myself: Would I want to wear a skirt if skirts wear the kind of clothes that men wear? Am I attracted to women's fashion because it is women wearing it, or am I attracted to women's fashion because, irrespective of gender, I simply like that style?"

Great questions.

Personally, I'm not attracted to women's fashion at all. I like nice clothes and sometimes wear bright colours, but can't be bothered with skirts at all.

If a fairy godmother waved a wand and made you a woman who wore jeans, trainers, and unisex sweaters all the time would you be happy?

"It's really so very difficult to encapsulate into words."

THANK YOU for trying. It is truly illuminating. I wish you all the best in finding your way and I hope you will keep posting on MN.

Thank you so so much CoteDAzur for what you have just said. That really is so kind of you and means so much to me.

"Then would you not say that what you want, really, is not to become a woman but to become... free?

I hate answering questions with a question but I'm just so inclined to respond by saying "isn't that what we all want". Such an answer doesn't really cut the mustard though, so:

If I feel I can't be free being a man, and yet I want to be free, then the logical answer would be that I no longer want to be a man.

And so the only other alternative to not being a man is to be a woman. But if a woman can't be free, and if what I really want is to become free, then the only logical answer to that is that I wouldn't want to be a woman either.

"If a fairy godmother waved a wand and made you a woman who wore jeans, trainers, and unisex sweaters all the time would you be happy?"

I could only ever say whether I would be happy or not AFTER experiencing what it was actually like to be a woman. Yet I could only ever really understand that if I was born a woman, only ever lived as a woman, grew up as a woman, only ever been treated as a woman, only ever known being a woman. And if THAT was the case, I wouldn't be able to answer your question from the perspective of being a man!

As it stands, I have to say yes, I would be happy if that fairy godmother waved that wand. Because, as it stands, being a woman would mean that I wasn't a man. I say that only because I don't want to be a man.

Yet that flies in the face of what I said in my OP. Nonetheless, that answer in a way kind of encapsulates how I feel. And that answer also encapsulates the real and valid issues that women here have expressed in regards to transgender "issues"

It's so confusing!!

Genuinely, my head feels like it's about to explode. I'm trying so hard to put my feelings into words but I feel like they are not really hitting the mark. I've read a thread on a transgender forum that asked the question: "on the assumption that reincarnation was real, would you like to be reincarnated as a man or a woman?"

The overriding answer given in the replies to this question was that they would want to be reincarnated as a woman. The overriding reason provided by many respondents being that, well, in essence, they would be able to wear dresses, and make-up, and "all things nice". I couldn't help but feel that their answer is something that only a cross-dresser/transgender person would say. That is, they couldn't escape from how they feel, as a man, what it is that is good about being a woman. The problems that women face, that simply won't be of any consideration to them. Because those things aren't a problem for them as men.

The conclusion, the only conclusion one can draw from that is that it's all about the clothes; it's all about the look. It's even about the boobs. (And yes, for many, it really is all about the boobs!!) Because that aesthetic is something that they (we) can experience. Put on a skirt, put on make-up. Glue fake boobs to their chest. (I've done all that). It's never, however, about how it actually feels to be a woman. Because that isn't an aesthetic. And that is something that they (we) are EVER able to experience. To be fair, some replies got this - that is, they realised that they were answering from the perspective of, and only the perspective of a transgender person. So kudos to them who said this.

ripples101
Gosh you are really digging deep, on your thoughts it must be very hard to do, and a massive hug for dealing with all those questions.

I only wish I could help you be happy.

ripples - "isn't that what we all want [to be free]"

Yes, in a general sense. On the specific point of being free to dress up with "all things nice" etc I really don't know if most people would be so bothered as to take the drastic steps that transgender people take.

The only exception to this could be that if my country voted to implement burqas for all women, I would move rather than live like that. That would truly feel like not being free anymore. I'm not really bothered about any other type of dressing code - happy in bathing suit, boxer shorts, trousers, dresses, whatever.

"And so the only other alternative to not being a man is to be a woman. But if a woman can't be free, and if what I really want is to become free, then the only logical answer to that is that I wouldn't want to be a woman either."

What would you do then? Sorry, not meaning to push you, just curious about your feelings on this. Would you go back to being a man or detransitioning if you had transitioned at that point?

"Because, as it stands, being a woman would mean that I wasn't a man. I say that only because I don't want to be a man."

Have you considered how you would feel as an androgynous early-Bowie kind of man?

"they would want to be reincarnated as a woman. The overriding reason provided by many respondents being that, well, in essence, they would be able to wear dresses, and make-up, and "all things nice". I couldn't help but feel that their answer is something that only a cross-dresser/transgender person would say."

I agree. I also can't help but feel puzzled about this romanticised view of womanhood. I wonder how these trans people would feel about womanhood if they had grown up as a girl, treated as inferior by everyone, lost all sporting competitions to boys, groped, leered at, and quite possibly casually assaulted, expected to act docile and pleasant, experienced the agony of period pains every month, gave birth screaming and bleeding everywhere, then lost all career aspirations because they were expected to wipe baby bum and clean house, with menopause to look forward to. Glitter make up and pretty skirts really does not make up even 0.1% of the experience of womanhood, much of it pretty dire and disheartening.

"it's all about the clothes; it's all about the look. It's even about the boobs. Because that aesthetic is something that they (we) can experience. Put on a skirt, put on make-up. Glue fake boobs to their chest. (I've done all that). It's never, however, about how it actually feels to be a woman. Because that isn't an aesthetic. And that is something that they (we) are EVER able to experience."

Thank you for your honesty and this fresh insight into the thoughts of transgender people. Really. Much appreciated

I can't stop wondering what sort of society we have created that leads people to feel so awful in themselves. It really is just heartbreaking that people want to be free of thier bodies, rather than feeling them as joyous vessels to house our brain, spirt, soul.

While not all women feel a huge disconnect from their body and their person I'm sure a lot do. And it feels to me that point, the raw, uncomfortable, disconnected point, is the part were in roads might be made if more people were brave enough to feel the pain