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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Transgender thoughts from a transgender

62 replies

ripples101 · 16/02/2016 00:14

Hi

I recently joined mumsnet in order to post some of my thoughts on another thread that was active on this site at that time. After I did so, I received, from many of you, really positive, encouraging feedback. After I did so, I received no negative thoughts from any of you. And for that, I want to take this opportunity to thank you all.

The reason why I've decided to create this thread is to expand on what it means to me to be transgender, and to share with you all my concerns in regards to issues that are being discussed currently in the public sphere. I want to say right now that my thoughts relate to my own experiences as a biological male who identifies and presents as society would dictate a biological female to present.

First of all, I want to make it clear that while I am transgender, my own thoughts in regards to being identified as such do not sit well with me at all, to the point that I actually want to "revoke" my trans identity. For what this "identity" is seemingly intent on becoming is something that I can no longer identify with. This creates somewhat of a "catch 22" situation for me in the sense of how do I actually go forward and identify myself if the label that was once most suited to encapsulating who I am no longer has any resonance with me?

The only answer I've been able to come up with in response to that question is that I have to formulate my own identity, and in doing so only hope that others can understand what that identity may be. At the time of writing this post, I've failed in that regard. For no matter what word I use, others will already have a preconceived idea of what the word that I may end up using actually means. And so it remains difficult for me to be able to correctly and succinctly express to others who I am and how I wish to be regarded.

I'm going to start by providing an analogy. An analogy that I personally think encompasses the issue that every single transgender experiences. An analogy that gets right to the heart of the very meaning behind identifying oneself in terms of the gender presuppositions that are put on every single one of us.

The analogy that I'm going to use, somewhat aptly, somewhat ironically, relates to the word "binary", and what it means in computer/mathmatical terminology. That is, "1" and "0". For the sake of this analogy, let's say biological females equal "1", whereas biological males equal "0". For the sake of this analogy, there is nothing in between. No 0.5. No 1.5. Only ever "1" and "0". Now let's assume that in the case of a transgender person who was born male, all they have ever known is 0. Yet they don't feel happy as a 0. The only other alternative that is open to them in order to escape their own unhappiness at being 0 therefore is to become (or at least identify as being) 1. Yet they have no experience of what it actually means to be a 1. All they know is that being 1 allows them to escape from their actual identity of being a 0.

What I am getting at by using this analogy I hope is clear to everyone here. To bring it down to a personal level, if I am not happy being male, then the only other alternative open to me is to identify as, express myself as, a female. And the only way I can do that is to push away my male identity and present as female, using signifiers that society and culture dictates are traditionally associated with the opposite sex. Such signifiers being pronouns, clothes, body shape, societal roles, etc.

It's for this reason that I believe so many transgendered people, after transitioning, remain unhappy. For while they may have "escaped" the gender that they can't associate/identify with, the gender to which they have escaped to doesn't resonate with them either. When the only option from escaping from "0" is to become "1", then it's only after becoming "1" that they will then know if "1" is actually what they really needed to become. Put simply, there is no guarantee that that actually is the case, and the only way to find whether it is or isn't, is to experience both.

This leads me to a conclusion that I can not escape from. That conclusion being, a transgender person is simply unhappy being with and of themselves. And that is a frightening thought, and I say that as a transgender person myself.

The only comfort I can garner from this is not to identify as either a 1 or 0. As either male or female. Not something in between, just simply as neither. To put it succinctly, not feeling like a man doesn't make me a woman. To put it even more succinctly, how can I possibly say that I feel like a woman if I've only ever been a man?

Yet this is what you will hear transgender people say all the time. I can only conclude that I, and others who have said such a thing, simply have no idea what such a comment actually means. All I can ever say is that I'm not happy being male. And I can see now that the idea that "not happy being male" must therefore somehow equate to being female is an incredibly offensive thought process to have to those that actually are female.

OP posts:
PenguinVox · 18/02/2016 16:01

The title of that article is quite telling - "conservative family"

Easyeieio · 18/02/2016 19:41

test

Thelilywhite · 18/02/2016 20:38

I thought your post was very moving op. I wish you all the best for the future

Quodlibet · 18/02/2016 21:17

What I find sad about the whole affair is the perception that gender is/has to be binary. As others have said, it seems that at different times, there's been more acceptability of androgeny/versions of gender expression. Gender expression isn't stable across time or geography - there are so many variations of normal and permissible. It seems like such a massive shame that people who feel unhappy boxed into one traditional gender expression don't see or feel that it's a valid option to explore and to find an expression that makes them happier but which isn't '0' or '1'.

What I find concerning about transgender messaging is the reductive binary that is often offered up. You don't feel like a man/boy? Fine, then you CAN be a woman/girl! What about it being OK not to be a manly man man, but without the assertion that this means you are in that case woman??

TheWatchersCouncil · 18/02/2016 23:27

ripples!! I was thinking about you today and wondering how you were! So pleased you are here. Not even read your OP yet, but as soon as I saw it was you, I wanted to say hello Smile.

Right. Back to your OP!

TheWatchersCouncil · 18/02/2016 23:31

Oh Ripples - thank you for sharing this. Extraordinarily generous of you and very moving.
As many of us said on one of the other threads, there is space for you here, and people who will listen and provide support where we can.
X

Seriouslyffs · 19/02/2016 00:02

Thank you.

VinceNoirLovesHowardMoon · 19/02/2016 07:03

Thank you ripples! What a great post.

HelpfulChap · 19/02/2016 07:12

I have little to no experience on a personal level of this issue but I found your OP and subsequent posters comments interesting and thought provoking.

Your binary analogy fits quite well with a documentary i saw regarding Iranian homosexuals that are forced to have compulsory sex changes (please forgive if I have used the incorrect terminology).

I hope you find what you are looking for and have the future you desire.

MatildaBeetham · 19/02/2016 08:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DeadPooled · 19/02/2016 08:46

My partner is gender fluid (biologicallyfemale) and I usually avoid any trans threads on MN because I've read some very upsetting opinions.

It's such an individual thing. I believe gender is a spectrum, like sexuality. And the sooner people realise this the happier the world will be.

I hope you can find peace OP. Flowers

Sophie38 · 19/02/2016 09:08

I wonder if, for yourself and others perhaps, it might be worth looking at what it is exactly that makes you uncomfortable being identified as a man.

That, to me, is at the heart of this. I think you have pretty much hit the nail on the head.

I will give a brief outline of my own situation - I'm female, and I am afraid of other females because when I was small, I sensed that my mother, my sister and other female relatives and friends didn't approve of me. I somehow wasn't doing it 'right'.

So I thought men would like me more, but that actually isn't the case - I'm conditioned to be more confident around men, because the men I knew when I was small, liked me more. Or seemed to. So that made me form a bias.

Maybe it is something like that. I don't particularly identify as anything, to me gender is just your biology, nothing more or less. Sometimes I think I could easily be a bloke in the eyes of society, purely based on my behaviours and physical/social etc preferences, but it would be a nonsense for me to claim that I am actually male, because I'm not and never will be until I can turn back time and be born with a willy.

Which I'm not keen to do anyway Smile

To me gender is pretty much an irrelevance when I consider what to wear, so, look like or who to sleep with. It doesn't matter. There are seven billion people in the world and each of us has our own identity, and it's not male or female in any way other than through our physiology - and our own imagination.

PassiveAgressiveQueen · 19/02/2016 15:49

I also like the analogy, but then for a shortime my username was in hex. I also understand the desire to be not 'me' as a teenager i spent vast amounts of time changing my hair, clothes etc. each time hoping the change would make me happy it never did as my cloths or hair were never actually the problem.

RomiiRoo · 19/02/2016 20:37

Good post, thank youFlowers. What you say sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse · 19/02/2016 20:49

Wow. Just wow. What a powerful, amazing post.

I don't know what to say. I don't really do hugs, but I'd like to hug you.

I'm a woman who doesn't identify as a woman. I have a female body and that's fine, i don't hate it. But it doesn't define me as a person.

I really hope you can find a way to be happy with who you are. Because you are you. And that's a fine thing to be.

Especially since you're clearly highly intelligent, empathetic, and the most important thing of all, kind.

FlatOnTheHill · 19/02/2016 22:16

Thank you for sharing. Such an interesting read. Wishing you all the very best Thanks

Ambroxide · 19/02/2016 22:31

This is such a fantastic post, and thank you for clearly taking the time to think through the implications of your own identity and needs. I wish all trans people were as thoughtful and empathetic.

I wish you all good things in coming to terms with your own identity and finding your own space where you are at peace.

CoteDAzur · 22/02/2016 10:29

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us, ripples. Please continue to post.

If you don't mind me being nosy, I am curious about your struggle around the issue of identity.

Have you always felt that you had to find and define an identity for yourself? Or do you feel that this is imposed on you by society?

I am asking, because I can't remember having spent a single moment thinking about what my identity is. And that as a person of unusual upbringing who speaks multiple languages and lives in a country far from her place of birth.

On a slightly different note: Would you say that women are freer in how we live/look? That is, we can wear whatever we want (trousers, dress, shorts, jackets, vests) or wear make-up or not, wear our hair long or short, etc whereas men are expected to have short hair and can't wear skirts, dresses, or makeup?

ripples101 · 22/02/2016 20:33

Hi everyone

Thanks so much for your replies and the encouragement that you've given me. You've all really made me feel so welcome here, and that means a lot to me.

WatchersCouncil, thanks also for your message where you said you were thinking about me. That means a lot to me. And hello to you as well :)

I've read the other transgender thread (which I commented on but has, obviously since then, continued and progressed in the way that every thread should - discussing new information and responding in kind). Upon reading the latest posts in the other transgender thread, the discussion surrounding Anna Lee - the student "activist" who is in the running for a place in the NUS really sparked my interest. So much so that I'm currently composing a letter that I want to send to Anna Lee. I don't think Anna Lee will like it very much. But then the important thing will be how Anna Lee addresses my letter, if indeed my letter is addressed and replied to at all.

I won't dwell on the content of my letter too much here, but I will, if it's ok with you all, let you know the outcome of that letter as and when the time comes.

Let's just say for now that I disagree with the overall intent behind this particular person's "manifesto". For, for me, Anna Lee completely misses the point. For me, Anna Lee is yet another reason for me wanting to revoke my identity as transgender.

Ok, a little more about me. I am still male! I always will be regardless of the amount of surgery that may or may not take place. No matter what clothes I wear. No matter how I present myself. I wish I wasn't male, because being male holds no resonance with me. But then being transgender no longer holds any resonance with me. So I'm struggling at the moment. The best way to describe my current state of mind at this present time is to simply state that "I am who I am", and the only positive I can exude from that is one of "if that doesn't align with anyone else's perception of who I should be, then that is something that they will have to deal with". I haven't had any surgery. I don't think that I want any surgery. I just want to be me. I do currently present myself in a way that society would expect a woman to present (not all the time I should add), but I have to stress that that presentation does NOT MAKE me a woman. At best, the only thing I can create is an illusion. An external presentation that in some way resonates with who I feel internally (and that internal feeling isn't so much about what gender I THINK I AM, it's rather about what gender I BELIEVE I am NOT). What I mean by that is the way I feel, the way I am conditioned to think, is something that men generally shouldn't feel. That however, doesn't mean that I have some intrinsic idea of what it is to be a woman.

Or put another way, the way I feel could well be simply nothing more than a preference. Isn't that the case with so many transgender people? That they are expressing a preference for what society in general states is more associated to the gender opposite to your own? Pink for girls? Blue for boys? Dolls for girls? Action men for boys? Clothes that fall over both legs, as opposed to clothes that wrap around each leg individually: Aren't these the kind of things that are the real, abstract notions? How is it that something so abstract be something that can determine something so serious as to what sex a person actually is?

I mean, we all, as individuals, have our own fashion sense. That is something that is often encouraged in our mid-to-late teens. At a time that is akin to a "get-it-out-of-your-system-before-the-real-work-hits-and-you-really-are-forced-to-fall-into-the-line-that-society-expects".

And if our "fashion sense" goes beyond that period in our lifes, then even then, should it really be something that determines/encapsulates COMPLETELY who we are as individuals? I don't think it should. Personally. But then, me, as transgender, would say that.

OP posts:
MrsNoraCharles · 22/02/2016 20:40

I am who I am is, I think, the best any of us can say about ourselves. And I think Your "I am" is actually pretty damn good Ripples.

I'm guessing your posts aren't easy to write. You have my respect.

Flowers
Shallishanti · 22/02/2016 20:45

interesting and sounds so sensible compared to the lunacy we are seeing elsewhere
yes please write to Anna and let us know how you get on

SitsOnFence · 22/02/2016 20:58

Wow, thank you for sharing your thoughts so openly, ripples.

Male and female should just be biology. Identity's should be who you are regardless of sex.

I know it's already been quoted once, but this comment from another poster really resonated, along with your comments about transgender being, for you at least, a way to define what you are not. All very thought provoking, and I wish you all the best.

Ambroxide · 22/02/2016 21:14

I would be very interested in what response you get from Anna, ripples. She hasn't been very open to debate on her Facebook page!

Reading this and other stuff, it seems to me that the problem for current trans women isn't that the definition of what a woman is needs to be widened to include people who were born male. The problem is that the definition of what it is to be a man is so narrow that there are people who simply cannot reconcile how they feel inside and how they choose to look with a male identity.

Does anyone know what the relative percentages of trans men and women compared to the general population are? It's an interesting one because it does seem that trans men are doing something slightly different with their choice of identity, culturally speaking, though I haven't quite sorted out my thoughts on that yet. I was just reading Maria Catt talking about being ridiculed by boys at coding camp amongst other things and that sparked a train of thought that I haven't quite got to the end of yet!

Lanark2 · 22/02/2016 21:30

Some interesting comments here. I must admit that I find it quite frightening in a world the size it is, that the female and male 'looks' are becoming so generic and polarised. On the dating apps its quite scary how few 'types' there are of either sex, compared to how I remember my 20s (90s) and how similar people are in India, USA, UK, Europe. I never identified with what I called the heterosexual 'scene' the nightclubs, meat market fighting if you don't get snogged crap, but didn't see the thug 'real man' as being the only male type.. I was alt had long hair sometimes, wore make up sometimes and never questioned my sexuality. Now I am comfortable around tossers but don't want to be one, am happy with having emotions and know that in many situations I am uncomfortable with being seen as a male cliche, and can be quite shocked when I am pegged as sexist or racist or any number of 'white male' clichés even before I've opened my mouth. I think consciousness of gendered thinking, wider sexual boundaries, but perversely polarised and generic expectations of beauty are causing people to mismatch the inner them with the outer them a little more.

The internet helps a richer secret internal you develop that might not match the one staring back at you when you get to the mirror, but that isn't necessarily that you don't fit your gendered body, it might be that you feel like more than the polarised generic male or female. I know I don't.

AuntGertrude · 22/02/2016 21:53

Thank you so much for your posts, Ripples.