BoysToys

[SlowFJH]

We have two boys and a girl (all now teenagers). My daughter was never into dolls and never really liked pink. She was into arts and crafts and loves knitting and sowing. The boys were completely stereotypical (plastic and wooden swords, guns, cars, diggers and tractors, soldiers etc).

We have good feminist friends (with three boys) who banned violent toys for boys. They always gave us the cat's bum face when they visited ours because their boys used to absolutely love playing with my sons' swords and shields. When we went out it for a walk, every stick they found was a gun - despite their parents vocal disapproval.

My friend's boys (now all strapping teenage lads) joke about how their parents banned them from having the toys they always wanted.

We definitely saw differences in toy preferences very early on. My daughter had zero interest in wheeled toys (despite my efforts) but both boys were fascinated by them virtually from day one.

I know my experience is not scientific. But there were some studies several years ago using baby apes (who obviously had not been conditioned by human systems or been exposed to advertising etc). Baby male apes showed a clear preference for mechanical toys over plush toys.

www.newscientist.com/article/dn13596-male-monkeys-prefer-boys-toys/

I'd love to hear others views on this topic... social conditioning versus biological predispositions.

To clarify the question re chess. Not saying we should force children to do anything they don't want to. Just curious about how to encourage them to consider a toy / game that some might say "Oh no, that's for boys not girls"

To be honest I'm not really sure where all the rage towards my pov is coming from.

It's all the testosterone.

SEXISM!!!!@

I grew up in the 70s where girls were girls

I grew up in the '70s, too. My favourite toys were Lego, Meccano and the Britain's toy farm. We had cap guns, and made bows and arrows. We made a go-kart from the base of the Silver Cross pram. I did crafty stuff, too, and read loads, including school, ballet and pony stories. I just wasn't keen on dolls. Not all girls were forced down a particular route. My sister played more with dolls than I did, but she also played chess. No one's ever taught me to play chess, which I suspect is one reason girls play less. We could do pretty much what we wanted, as long as we weren't getting under Mum's feet, eating poisonous plants or playing on the tractors.

I think nurture has more to do with it all than nature. It's pretty much impossible to prove, because you'd never get ethical sign off for an experiment to isolate children from society at birth and see how they grew up with different levels of different hormones. And keeping them away from society would also cause massive issues in itself, regardless of hormones.

I think so too.

I like chess, my DM likes chess and so far my DD likes chess. I actually had no idea it was a traditionally male thing.

If a girl pushes a buggy and a boy pushes a truck, they are both playing with wheeled mechanical toys, are they not?

And if the buggy is loaded with a doll and the truck with a toy soldier, then both are now playing at transporting loads with their wheeled mechanical toys...

We discourage violent toys because we want to discourage violence. Both DD and DS do some of it anyway, and have received some as gifts. I don't see that as proof that we are wrong to convey our dislike of it. I don't like the way i see their friends play with those toys. People get hurt. Not okay in my book.

PenguinVox
AFAIK women and girls are hugely under-represented in chess.

We made a point of introducing all three of ours to it.

Catkind
How do you discourage violent toys? Do you go as far as saying no to particular toys they wanted?

For us, what started off with a yes to a water pistol ended up with an arsenal of battery powered nerf guns

I'm not sure we can use horses as an example when people have been selectively breeding them for centuries because doesn't that have an effect on genetics long-term? I know very little about animal husbandry though.

Chess is a strategy/war game, so maybe traditionally it was seen as a game for men rather than women.

Great article here Allmybestfriends
www.thehorse.com/articles/10024/castration-in-the-horse

I have a theory about chess (and other competitive games). It tends to be men who are willing to devote almost all their waking hours to it, and to be socially accepted to do so. Most women will have other concerns or families to attend to.
Plus, from early on it won't be seen as desirable for a girl as for a boy.
I know a girl who plays chess, but she also does ballet and plays music. Shell never be great at either.

You're right that the origins of chess are strategy and (symbolic) war. But that's no reason for girls not to get into it IMO.

There was some discussion in the press last year about sexism in chess, because of the comments made by a male grand master. Inevitably, Judit Polgar was asked to comment.

Yes that the former British Grand Master Nigel Short.

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11549164/Sexist-chess-row-Girls-brains-are-not-hard-wired-differently-thanks.html

I didn't say it was a reason.

I banned my oldest son from having violent toys. The result? Lego guns, empty kitchen roll swords and eventually stealing a little toy gun from a friends house... after this I have up.

I only have sons but both of them loved guns and sword and violent action figures. They also both loved play kitchens, wendy houses and my youngest loved dolls houses. They've now grown out of toys.

I used to be one of those people who angrily closed her ears to scientific studies that show innate differences between the sexes. Now I have much more nuanced opinion.

Slow mine like science kits, star wars, wiu u, mario. Eldest doesn't like imaginative play or babies. It isn't her hormones it's something in her brain.

Obviouslt before I knew I bought her dolls and a play house. Seems really stupid now as all a waste of money.

Our house has a lot of violence. I don't give them toys of it as it will only encourage it, surely? I don't know why parents buy their children toys like that, maybe their kids could handle it.

With reference to chess the reason mine couldn't do it is 1) you have to be quiet 2) you have to concentrate. wouldn't even attempt it! I think boys that play chess are the quiet, studious types.