Suicide-a feminist issue?

[whenwomenruletheworld]

Tragically high male suicide rates have I think wrongly painted this as a men's issue. Aren't all the suicides men and women tragedies? And if the "man up/grow a pair" culture is in part responsible for men killing themselves in such numbers, when will society see feminism as the main opponent to the patriarchal bullshit which creates these gender stereotypes as the main hope for both men and women of dismantling them? It is disheartening to hear men talk disparagingly about feminism when my God the alternatives PUA nonsense MRA, UKIP, are so totally discredited. As someone posted on here when will there be a men's rights movement which embraces feminism as it's sister movement and which focuses on things which damage everyone?

NAMALT = not all men are like that

Sorry - found it - this

therearesomanythingswrongwiththis.com/2015/06/01/namalt/

NAMALT - "Not All Men Are Like That" - There's a whole pile of memes on the internet deriding and explaining the arguments around the use of this acronym.

Maybe use a smiley next time you chuck in a humorous curve ball. Although to be fair, Melinda and Dervel's response raised a smile more than yours!

Chuh, no one gets my humour either. I was saying, you saying 'all feminists use sweeping generalisations' is an embodiment of the antithesis of your point. It refutes itself. Yeah? That's your joke, right?

OK - use littler words next time. But yes. Woohoo. One of my jokes worked.

Men's campaigning groups who can easily work side by suss with feminism do exist.
Locally yo me there's a campaign group for dads. It's about better recognition of parenting responsibilities and flexibly attitudes to families at work. It's for building confidence in childcare among young dads, it's basically for breaking down gender stereotypes. The group is not "MRA" in the sense we see them in here and my entire experience has been it is run by men who are feminists in outlook but who approach the issues in society from the other side.

Although I can imagine it's uncomfortable. I know I get annoyed with statements like "women prefer to stay at home when they have children" although at a class level that's possibly true.

Yes, it is uncomfortable. It is also uncomfortable (as one poster put it - can't remember who) that I have to look at some of my accomplishments and say did I do that? Or did patriarchy.

However, I comfort myself with the fact that I am a white chav-class northern male with mental health issues and unseen disabilities who has (by my own definition and values only) succeeded.

What I want to see is my daughters, my cousins and my friends being able to succeed (to their own definition) based upon what they do, not what they were born as.

Maybe, and I could be dead wrong, maybe part of the problem is that when MRA is mentioned it is the twits with websites rather than the grass roots movements?

Sort of like the issues feminism had with the National Organisation for Women - i.e. they tried to hard to codify, own and control feminism. The public face BECOMES the movement - as far as others are concerned.

Such as a ridiculous statement I read on a Facebook page that being expected to be the breadwinner and do housework was domestic abuse.

That was written by an MRA? Does he admit, then, that essentially all women in the workforce (who are expected to do the main part of housework in addition to their job) are abused by their husbands (who feel entitled to free time once they're home from their jobs)?

Probably not, just asking.

As for suicide being a feminist issue ... what about suicide of women? The fact that women less often succeed with suicide attempts doesn't make the fact they're attempting suicide andy less bad.

Without patriarchy, would any woman feel the compulsion to kill herself?

I just now realized that this forum lacks a smiley that throws up.

They clearly haven't the slightest idea what rape is. Probably wouldn't recognize it if they committed it.

Fuck off patriarchy.

In all forms.

Here's a nice example. Men need a "clares law" to protect them from women who will "mentally and materially rape them". Right. Because having to split assets with your wife on divorce is the same as actually being raped and murdered by your partner.

www.suffragents.org/#!coercive-control-methods-behaviour/v6gny

Just holy shit. Wow. I knew that the meninist UK twitter account was a tool, but hadn't realised it had gotten this bad.

That's not to say women CAN'T be abusive. Of course they can, and anyone in an abusive relationship should be able to reach out and seek help.

But that is just insane.

And not just domestic violence. Both sexes can be guilty of using other forms of abuse to control their partners. Certainly having been in an abusive relationship in the past I can attest to that.

But the stuff on that website does not relate to that whatsoever, and insults men and women who have been victims of abusive partners.

They were on my list of websites to research anyway, but not sure how much more I need to see, really.

Is mumsnet on your list of websites to research?

To what end are you researching?

I mean, you realise that to us, this shit is actually real, yes? Not theoretical games.

Is mumsnet on your list of websites to research?

To what end are you researching?

I mean, you realise that to us, this shit is actually real, yes? Not theoretical games.

Funnily enough, no. I hoped that I might find some individuals on here that could help me. My wife pointed out this thread BECAUSE it directly linked in to some of my thinking (depression and suicide are a really important topic to me personally).

I had posted above - I am contemplating writing a book. I think it is really important to get as many different views as possible - and that has to include views from as far across the spectrum as possible.

I believe inherently that there should be a men's rights movement. But, I can't back up that there is a need, what the goals should be or how it should operate (hence most of my questions). I am currently basing in on my own experiences and views of how the world operates - and I am fully aware how very limited one person's experiences are, no matter how important to that one person. Hence the research and desire to capture that.

I do believe that the Mens rights movement we have at the moment is mostly ruined - because of infiltration of idiots (although I think it might be worse than I thought). So the book is really going to be about how it could change, if at all.

And to your final point, yes, patriarchy is real to everyone. It also impacts men too. And, it impacts men from lower socio-economic classes much more than men from more privileged backgrounds. So, it impacts me too, if in a very different way.

Already really aware of CALM (think I linked to them earlier in this thread actually).

Thanks for the suggestion - I will add it to the reading list. I am also reading some of the (I don't want to use this term, but) standard texts on feminism - Wollstonecraft, Pankhurst, de Beauvoir.

I also want to write something that in a way compares the 2 movements from a historical perspective as well as from a real perspective.

So any recommendations on a really good primer on the history of feminism OR the early days of feminism (I am thinking first wave feminism) would be gratefully received.