Peoples utter misunderstanding of domestic abuse..

[Ledkr]

I had to come here to offload a bit as I'm feeling a bit pissed off.
I'm a survivor of extreme dv abd I now work with victims but I rarely comment on threads other than to signpost.
Today there is a thread on which the advice includes "knock the twat out" or "if anyone treated me this way Id laugh my head off"
It's so sad to see this utter lack of understanding of the complexities of abuse.
No wonder women keep it quiet.

the number of people who think that their partner is not abusive because he doesn't hit them is heartbreaking by MrsPnut is right: this is the biggest myth that needs breaking because I used to believe that too.

Sounds like a great idea.

Perhaps incorporate some links to the women's aid and refuge pages, as they have lots of info already about abuse, myths etc? For example women's aid have a page 'Am I in an abusive relationship?' With a series of questions to answer. Refuge also have a page on DV myths. Save reinventing the wheel?

Obviously needs warnings about clearing Internet history etc.

Those are great resources, for the victims. They're not so good for yer ordinary average MNer who has never come across abuse, and who thinks that most things can be solved with a sensible bit of conversation (and who may not have a lot of time to plough through lots of text, or isn't quite interested enough to do so), but who does have enough interest to post some well-meaning but seriously ignorant suggestions.

It'd also be helpful to have info on what actually helps women in these situations.

when a poster has DC writes about their situation they are often advised put them first and LTB, and berated if they don't. Can understand people's frustration, but doubt that helps.

Might also be good to have a MN campaign on better funding for services for women in abusive relationships and their DC. Posters sometimes don't think they can get help from Womens Aid or similar, or can't get through.

I suppose I was also thinking about resources for victims on here, rather than MNs giving advice. Places people who don't think they are in an abusive relationship could be directed to go and have a look at? I know there is a a DV link at the top of the relationships page, but direct links to specific topics might be helpful.

It also would be really really useful for people to understand what happens when a DV victim calls the police. So many myths on here about 'logging incidents' etc, really dangerous.

Another thing is about calling womens aid. As we all know they're under funded and hard to get through to. Most people are better off trying to contact their local IDVA/ DV service, and lots of those aren't run by womens aid. Looking on the local council website is the best bet, rather than trying and trying to get through to the national number.

Totally agree with Jux. The myth busting page should be on mumsnet. It should be aimed at providing basic advice for the average person who is coming across a situation where they think DV might be involved. It can link to other pages which explain issues in depth.

I've asked for this before along with a guide for other posters about how to support women in dv situations. Especially after the mad cross country dash that played out on here a couple of years ago. I'd be fully behind any campaign.

There is a start for such things on the ongoing threads inrelationships, the stately home thread (for survivors of dysfunctional families) and the other one for present emotional abuse. Just direct people to those threads.

We could start a similar ongoing thread for physical violence survivors in feminism I suppose, but ... would it get used? Emotional support thread
and stately home thread

I'm not surprised people in general have so little understanding of DV when the public rhetoric is essentially to victim blame.

The police are also often quite crap (depends on what force you get). It takes so much for a woman to get to a point where she goes to seek help and then often they are massively unsympathetic. When my mum reported her abusive ex for assault it took them over a month to arrest him as they said they had 'other priorities'.

Then when a woman is killed and it turns out there had been many prior reports of DV they get all apologetic about it.

And yy to the total lack of understanding re the mental and psychological aspects. 'just ignore him' is my favourite piece of ignorant advice.

A friend was the victim of coercive control and domestic violence. I wrote this www.nelliepompoms.co.uk/#!Dear-survivor-Coercive-Control-and-Domestic-Violence-Abuse/cz09/5683bd320cf20a60e3ae6451

Icons it unbelievable that people would advise anything so stupid!!!
I was a child who witnesses years (my entire childhood) of domestic violence, what people get so so wrong is they seem to think the abuser wakes up one day and hits his/her partner. This is such a misconception, the emotional abuse starts years before the violence, my DM was a shivering wreck before any violence started, she had been so worn down by the emotional abuse over the years, she was in no state to leave when the violence started.
I really hope MN looks carefully into people advising people to 'hot their abusive partners back' my DM would be dead if she had attempted that.
It is such a complex issue and happens for various reasons and sometimes the strongest women you know can be affected, abusers are very cunning.
If you are in this situation please seek help in one of the amazing charities out there. Refuge saved my mothers life not just during but after with the amazing counselling to help her move on with her life.

Sorry lots of spelling mistakes in there.

systematic disassembling of the personality Jux this phrase was a lightbulb moment for me too. That's exactly what he did. Reading that sends shivers down me.

A page of resources would be so, so helpful. I'd be glad to help with this in any way I can.

Also practical advice - the police didn't take any photos of my injuries, which ultimately led to H escaping being charged for his crime.

I was advised by MN to go to the GP so my injuries were documented. I did, but it was 5 days after and some of my injuries had faded - in particular scratches and fingernail marks round my neck.

If I had gone to go straightaway it would have made a huge difference and it's the one piece of advice I wish I had heeded earlier.

Please document your injuries with a gp no matter how minor you think they might be.

Also if you are planning to move home/city/country then do this before you tell him you are splitting up. Afterwards it becomes v hard to do move children without his consent.

There needs to be a much wider understanding of the reg flags and the emotional abuse that goes on before violence, I totally, utterly agree.

I was a strong woman before this and am sometimes embarrassed to share what I went through. People cannot understand how you allow yourself to be treated in that way, but the truth is that most women don't realise themselves that they are being emotionally abused until it's too late and they have already been suffering for years.

I would like to see some preemptive education warning people of the danger signs to look out for in a new relationship.

I'm a survivor. The thing that frustrates me the most is the attitude that we're somehow stupid for believing the lie that it won't happen again. I want to scream that we believe it because it's not a lie. When he says he's sorry and that it'll never happen again, he's telling the truth and he means it 100% (at that moment in time). That's why we believed them.

But also, tbe more isolated you becone, the more that the only sympathy and soothing you get are from the perpetrator.
I remember being so frightened, in pain, tired etc abd then he would put his arms around me and I was so grateful for the comfort that Id lap it up.

I feel so sad for that girl.

Yes Ledkr. Totally know where you are coming from. It's hard to think about that side of it but you've really struck a chord.

Yes such a good idea!

I think there are myths that even victims can believe that stop them from getting out...

Like:

1. DV only happens to poor/ not very educated/ not professional people. It's easy to dismiss this as prejudice and stereotypes, but I've seen women falling into this trap and mislabelling themselves or blaming themselves for 'getting into this state'. In the same way... But I'm such a strong person...

Myth 2: the abuser doesn't have to believe that it's abuse. He probably won't in fact, and seeking to give him insight into the effects of his behaviour... Well, it traps people into staying, trying to create change if he'd only just see it your way, or traps people into wanting their abuser to acknowledge your reality and almost give you permission to leave.

Myth 3: I'm not quite sure how to phrase this but it definitely held me back from taking on board advice on these boards.
Something like, an abuser doesn't have to act with the 'intention' to hurt you, or maybe, he might not fit the clever villain stereotype... He may be acting on instinct, or with regret afterwards, or acting out in panic to get their own way etc... I don't want to devalue the abuse, which is why it's hard to write, but because everyone wrote back as if STBXH was plotting and planning his abuse, deliberately and with full awareness... With the intention of abusing me. And that didn't fit with my experiences so I thought I wasn't being abused. He was actually too damaged/ self focused/ irrational to be creating a subtle and insidious assault on my personality and reality. But he was making this happen by his actions. And he was still very abusive, and me & DS, we weren't safe with him near us. 'Not doing it as a sustained attack' or being somehow flawed or vulnerable are not evidence that abuse is not happening/ not very bad.

And I say that as someone who hides from him now, and has lasting damage to my upper spine to remind me of him.

Misc - I think your 3rd point is that we have this idea that abusers are some kind of social monsters, when in fact the opposite is often the case.

Abusers are extremely clever con-artists. So clever that they believe themselves. They can be smooth and slick, able to play the nice guy, caring person etc etc. They do it so well that they believe it of themselves.

I can't give details due to confidentiality issues, but having been involved with an intervention program for abusers (and we're talking that kind capable of killing the person they 'love') every single one of them described themselves as caring and charming. I read a book for my college course based on studies of men in prison for murder/assault/rape. Every single one of them said how they made their victims happy, they weren't really abusers etc.

We need to get rid of the idea that we can spot an abuser, that they somehow stand out as being a misfit, or you can tell that they mean to harm someone.

Abusers are real people, part of our society, and often incredibly nice to just about everyone, except their victim(s). That's why they can get someone to care for them and be in a relationship. Without those skills they'd just be a thug. They may be able to do some short term damage, but long term they wouldn't be able to ingratiate themselves with people.

Yes to all of this.

Ex isn't exactly charming, but he can seem very vulnerable and shy. Harmless, until you see his angry face. Relentless too.

He could be very romantic. Loved the drama, I think, though.

I'm sure part of his problems come a fight or flight response, but whatever went on in his head still made things difficult for me.

Women told me how lucky I was to be married to STBXH.

In the earlier days I'd say the abuse wasn't planned, he wasn't acting with intention, most of the time. The abuse was terrible though, lots of violence.

But as time went on, he became much more calculating, planning ahead for months. He knew exactly what he was dong with the lies and gas lighting. He turned into a very nasty piece of work, who would do what he wanted to get to his goals. He knew he was abusing me, observed the effects on me and continued.

This is such a good idea and all of you have phrased things better than I ever could.

I think people who say "hit him back" or "I'd laugh if someone ever said that to me" are looking from a perspective of a normal healthy relationship. Of course if I came home from work to my normal healthy husband and he called me a whore and punched me, I'd either automatically defend myself, phone the police and leave him. Of course you would.

But when your husband has spent months, even years dismantling you then that becomes almost impossible.

Hopefully your post of myths help even just one woman feel more supported and educates even just one poster in the nuances of such a relationship.

Yes, you have it in a nutshell I think Salem. You cannot compare a normal happy healthy relationship where two people care about each other to an abusive dynamic where one partner has gradually stripped the other of all their self esteem and where the end result is that they believe they are worthless and should be grateful for anything they get. That's why some people can't get their heads around it. Lucky them.

In my experience though, it can get to that stage reasonably quickly if the abused partner is quite dependent on the abuser and already vulnerable due to low self esteem generally or being young/inexperienced and not having much of a frame of reference for relationships. Quick involvement is a major red flag. I moved in with my first boyfriend two months after we started dating when I was 18. The red flags of his controlling and destabilising behaviour were there from day 1, I didn't or wouldn't see them.

It's the old frog in the pot analogy isn't it. If you drop a frog into a pot of boiling water it will immediately jump out to save itself. Put that same frog in a pot of cold water and gradually turn up the heat and the frog will stay put until it dies.