Owen Jones on trans rights. Again!

[CallaLilli]

Whilst I do think this case is very sad, I'm not sure Owen should've co-opted it for his little crusade. And the penultimate paragraph is just insulting to women and black people.
http://gu.com/p/4eczh

Owen Jones is a fucking skidmark. Can't take anything he says seriously since he threw his teddies about when asked a sensible question twice on Twitter. Constantly whines about how he was harassed and endlessly asked the same thing. He was asked twice. Count them. One. Two.

He also vanity searches his name and whines on Twitter about the meanies on FWR being all mean to him.

Hi Owen. No one's being mean. Answer the fucking question, you disingenuous twatbadger.

He is just an old fashioned misogynost

This case is dreadful. Appalling. However, the solution cannot be to create a policy whereby prisoners in men's prisons are put into women's prisons, despite what Owen appears to think. There is no reason why the women in prison should have their safety and privacy compromised in that way. Women are not just there for the benefit of everyone else.

The other people who've committed suicide in prison are no less worthy of a mention either. Prison services need to be improved for safety and security of all prisoners regardless of sex.

Making the issue of prison suicide into one where the solution is to compromise women's spaces rather than improve prisons does, I think, show where his thinking lies.

There is another article in today's guardian discussing this case. Concerns about the safety of women being housed with potentially dangerous trans prisoners is dismissed as a 'red herring'. There is no discussion at all regarding the dangers inherent in allowing people to be imprisoned according to whatever 'gender' they identify with. What can be done to challenge this new orthodoxy?

It is galling to see how many men are campaigning to give away women's spaces without even a thought. A close friend shared the horrible Owen Jones' article on FB and it made me rage. How easy, as a man, to see an injustice and offer a solution that may cause others more injustice without even thinking it through. The thinking seems to be men's prison = dangerous due to the unchangeable, violent nature of male prisoners. Solution = tell the women to budge up and expose themselves to increased risk of violence. Because trans rights are more important, presumably?

Agree - Owen Jones is a misogynist. He only cares about men (which includes TW). The rest of us with our repulsive vaginas can get to fuck.

If I were his mother I'd disown him.

Hey that's not true, Owen LOVES woman. As long as they have a dick, that is...

I despise OJ but it's the other article that bothers me more. It suggests there is some objective truth to there being no risk to women, that all dissenting voices to the trans brigade can be dismissed as a 'red herring'

So once again women are to be punished for not being as violent as men? Whose head do I have to kick to change this?

"So once again women are to be punished for not being as violent as men?"

If the world caters to the most violent people, then women learning to murder anyone who invades their spaces would seem to have the effect of making women's rights more of a priority.

It's certainly not how I'd like the world to be ordered, but if mentally unwell and violent men learn that they WILL be assaulted with intent to kill by women in women's spaces, they might just decide to take their chances in men's spaces.

PlaysWellWithOthers - "Hi Owen. No one's being mean."

Really? In the space of 11 posts he's been called a fucking skidmark, a twatbadger, a misogynist (twice), and suggested that his mother should disown him.

How long before someone on here hopes he dies of cancer?

I consider him the gardians answer to Katie Hopkins (now that's an insult!) Basically, click bait.

Yes homer, I should have had my fucking crystal ball out to know what other people were going to write shouldn't I?

How fucking remiss of me...and how much hyperbole? Cancer? Really?

I was referring VERY clearly to a particular issue, whatever goes on in your head is up to you.

Glen that is a very good description of him, click bait, perfect!

Is calling someone out on misogyny classed as being mean now?

Where do trans men go to prison? I don't know what the offending rates are for trans men (and this stuff seems hard to find). It seems to me that they would be at massive risk of assault in male prisons as well. Is anyone campaigning to sent all trans men to male prisons or is the press strangely silent? And why? Is it because the offending rates are small, the amount of FTT people is smaller and so on? Or is it because no trans man or ally is trying to get this done?

Lots of questions, I know. Any clue where this information is? It all seems to be about trans women. I only know two trans men (well three but one detransitioned) but trans men seem to be silent and invisible.

PlaysWell - 2 of those insults were from yourself!

If standing up to transphobia from certain radical feminists is misogynist now, then that probably makes a lot of women misogynists!

MrsT, Andy Selous is meant to be looking into stats for trans prisoners.

I assume this review will also consider the differences, if any, between the % of self harm in prison between men, women, trans men and trans women.

MrsTerryPratchett, you raise an interesting question. I once had to work on a publication with a group of transmen and a group of trans women. The transmen were initially quite hostile towards the TW because they felt that because they've been socialised as male and are used to being listened to etc, TW and their needs get a lot more attention than TM

If standing up to transphobia from certain radical feminists is misogynist now, then that probably makes a lot of women misogynists!

And allying himself with trans activists who claim that lesbians who don't want to have sex with pre-op TWs are transphobic does kind of make Owen a misogynist. As indeed does his complete ignoring of the needs of female prisoners, who may not want to share a prison cell with a TW who has been convicted of a violent crime and boasts of having "a 7 inch surprise".

Owen is always going on about how he's #ListeningAndLearning to various groups he doesn't belong to - why doesn't 'women' count as one of them?

What was she sent to prison for? I only ask because having googled her, I've read 3 articles now and not one of them mentions why she was in prison.

I'm sorry that she has killed herself, but maybe if you feel that suicide is the only way out, perhaps you shouldn't have actually committed the crime in the first place.

Robbery of a phone from a 15 year old and robbery from the mum as well i think. It was originally a suspended sentence but this person chose to break the terms in some way. Its unusual to get a year for robbery alone so i expect there is background. Anyhow totally not a threat to women at all

I hate this assumption that women should just make room - why? Why do women have to endanger themselves by sharing intimate places with people with penises because men are prone to violence and aggression?

Why aren't we talking about all of the other people who commit suicide in prison?

I am so fed up with the Guardian's "right on" stance on trans issues, and Owen Jones is a rampant misogynist. If he doesn't like being called a misogynist, he is welcome to revisit his views and stop "solving" problems by impinging on women's spaces.

Conflating gender critical defence of women with transphobia is pretty misogynistic to me, and women are not immune to espousing misogynstic views purely by virtue of being women, so I don't disagree with your logic there Calla, just the incredulous surprised tone