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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Are you a big fat cissexist?

107 replies

Cerseirys · 17/11/2015 19:04

Because Everyday 'Feminism' thinks you are...
http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/11/common-examples-cissexism/

If this is the future of feminism then I despair, I really do!

OP posts:
DeoGratias · 21/11/2015 19:14

They are always interesting issues to debate. In some Afghan groups with no sons a girl will be nominated as a boy in their very gender stereoptyped families and get to play boys' games, go out, where free boy clothes etc etc. I think they then have to move back to being a girl as they get older.

Gender is always worth debating. I have a lot of characteristics some people think are male but I call human.

I hope everyone human can be kind to other including trans people struggling with their gender and who have felt trapped in the same body just as I hope they can help women in our massive struggle to be treated equally.

almondpudding · 21/11/2015 19:27

Deogratis, yes, the Afghan Girls:

www.theweek.co.uk/middle-east/60664/bacha-posh-why-some-afghan-girls-are-raised-as-boys

They mostly don't want to swap back to female gender roles, and some prefer to live as adult men in terms of role.

But we assume that at least within the family, they are not expected to deny what sex they are?

DeoGratias · 22/11/2015 20:45

Indeed. Similar to the occasional English teenage girl who joined the navy pretending to be a boy. Didn't Joan of Arc also pretend to be male at one point to be able to lead and fight?

venusinscorpio · 22/11/2015 21:25

Exactly, she dressed as a man at several times in her life for practical reasons. But it was thought to be a reasonable precaution as a vulnerable woman acting in a military role. I've seen some dickwads try to claim her as trans.

From wikipedia:

Heresy was a capital crime only for a repeat offense, and a repeat offense of "cross-dressing" was now arranged by the court, according to the eyewitnesses. Joan agreed to wear feminine clothing when she abjured, which created a problem. According to the later descriptions of some of the tribunal members, she had previously been wearing male (i.e. military) clothing in prison because it gave her the ability to fasten her hosen, boots and tunic together into one piece, which deterred rape by making it difficult to pull her hosen off. A woman's dress offered no such protection. A few days after adopting a dress, she told a tribunal member that "a great English lord had entered her prison and tried to take her by force. [i.e. rape her]" She resumed male attire either as a defense against molestation or, in the testimony of Jean Massieu, because her dress had been taken by the guards and she was left with nothing else to wear.

VestalVirgin · 22/11/2015 22:07

There's also the sworn virgins of Albania, who "transition" to male as adults or at any point in time when it turns out there will be no male heirs to their father's estate.

They are treated as male by the law, but are not allowed to marry women, which implies that people very well know that those women are not male. (A relationship with a male will end up in them being killed, if I remember correctly, that's why they're also called sworn virgins)

Patriarchal societies are more at ease with making exceptions for some (un)lucky few than abolishing gender roles altogether.

venusinscorpio · 22/11/2015 22:22

YY Vestal. I think you do remember correctly. You generally can't change your mind. And women tended to want to do it to avoid the strictures of being a woman in such an incredibly patriarchal society, plus it was the only honourable way for the family to get a girl or woman out of an arranged marriage.

almondpudding · 22/11/2015 22:36

Vestal, that struck me too about the Afghan example.

It isn't considered necessary for those girls who grow up disguised as boys to follow girls' gender roles in childhood for them to fit into adult female gender roles.

So why restrict girls at all? Why are they not all out being allowed to go where they like, go out without a chaperone?

Presumably because small pockets of females being allowed to not follow the rules makes no real difference.

But if all girls were allowed freedom, gender roles would collapse.

In fact, the girls who are disguised as boys being allowed to chaperone mothers and sisters is reinforcing gender roles.

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