The Labour Party leadership election

[Amethyst24]

Make leader, male deputy, male candidate for London Mayor. I fucking despair, I really do. I've been going on about this on social media and I can't seem to make myself shut up about it, it makes me so incredibly angry.

Oh come off it re IRA. Yes of course those leaders had to meet with and deal with Sinn Fein. Completely different from a backbench nonentity having tea with them only a month after the IRA had tried to blow up the UK 's (whatever you might think of her) democratically elected PM. Huge lack of judgement and common sense.

So far as Better Together I assume you are not in Scotland so missed the wave of relief after the referendum result?

IRA was a good thing to do. Providing a bridge of sorts between the English-based governmentt and Parliament and the Irish-based organisation who were busy killing each other at the time seemed a worthwhile thing to do. Unless you were satisfied with a bit more killing thing.

Your last sentence is extremely offensive. I doubt very much that Corbyn's ill judged tea party had the slightest bearing on the peace settlement.

Given there was only 10% in it I think "wave of relief" is probably over egging the pudding.

Politically, Corbyn was ahead of the game. He wanted to sit down with Republicans a decade before the GFA was brokered. He was campaigning against apartheid when the world looked the other way.

Why would the desire to not have the killing thing be "offensive"?

Peace process? Has to start with someone/somewhere.

Given there was only 10% in it I think "wave of relief" is probably over egging the pudding

Were you here?

55% , not 10% voted against it.

Why would the desire to not have the killing thing be "offensive

That is not what you said. You said "unless you were satisfied with more killing"

Splitting hairs.

You seem to be having an argument with yourself ALass.

Yes, talking/drinking tea with IRA leaders seemed to be a good thing at the time to reduce the deaths unless there was an investment in not talking and keeping on the killing. Pretty open there.

It's not just meeting with Adams and McGuinness (though I haven't come across any evidence or assertion that JC was attempting to act as a peace broker then or in any of the subsequent negotiations).

It's describing them as "comrades" that turns my stomach: ie allies, people on the same side of the struggle, supporters...

It's incredibly na??ve to try to suggest that JC was just trying to build bridges to avoid more bloodshed, a month after 5 people were killed and 37 injured in an assassination attempt on the Prime Minister.

Thank you Christine I have not seen any attempt (other than what I have seen on here) to claim his actions were a pre-emptive move towards brokering peace. I'm sure if that had been the case we would have heard it.

"The Better together campaign was a disaster for Labour as it made the party look like they were doing the Tories bidding."

Disagree with this, think Alastair Darling was a good campaign leader.

Well, fuck me, Corbyn isn't perfect.

Quick, someone call the press.

Oh, they did, and a lot of it's being regurgitated on this thread, plus ca change and all that.

I hope he does what he's said he will do and listen to all sides before formulating policies. I also hope he does the 50/50 cabinet thing.

Yy, they're just so desperate to find some mud to sling. We've had war-mongerers enough as leaders, why not try a peace maker for once.

And Lass, I think someone has already said it, but the position in the 80s was very very different to the one we're facing now after 30- 40 years of right wing love of greed, hatred of lower-class people and hatred of society. Some of Thatcher's criticisms of the old public sector and the professions were valid but she chucked the baby out with the bathwater. We need a restored balance and many people - most? - are coming to see it.

I'm probably far to the right of most of you. I was glad Corbyn got elected. He actually seems to believe what he says. The other 3 whether they were men or women were slick and shiny and I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them. Yvette Cooper and Ed Balls were not straight with their MPs expenses, were they? I am old enough to remember Britain under Heath and Wilson and all the rest. It was grim in the 1960s and 1970s. Things changed but now after Thatcher and Blair people in politics are identikit and very self serving. Politicians speak but their words do not seem meaningful. This is why Labour lost the General Election. People are struggling in this country and many groups do not have a voice. Poor people. Young people. People in rural communities. People who don't want to bomb other countries. etc. I listened to Jeremy Corbyn speaking at the march for Refugees. I noted that he went to a community event rather than appear with Andrew Marr. Whether you like her or not, Nicola Sturgeon connects with people.

I agree about Nicola Sturgeon. And nobody (not even me) could call her feeble. Somebody else said Yvette Cooper was lightweight. I suppose feeble was a poor choice of words.

We need a restored balance and many people - most? - are coming to see it.

But he's not looking for a restored balance - he is looking for , or comes across as looking for , restoring a pre-1979 world.

ALass
I don't think anyone wants the the pre-1979 world but he is articulating the needs of the disenfranchised. Or the people who see voting as a waste of time.

Y'know the troubles were somewhat more complex than Republicans = bad, British government = good. There was of course internment without trial, plastic bullets, Bloody Sunday and the wrongful imprisonment of Irishmen in Britain (I believe JC campaigned for the release of the Bham Six/Guildford 4). Perhaps JC could see the bigger picture.

But he's not looking for a restored balance - he is looking for , or comes across as looking for , restoring a pre-1979 world.

You mean a time when housing was affordable, council housing was ample, university education was free, Britain had a manufacturing base? It wasn't all a bed of roses of course but somewhat better than the social and economic regression 1979-present.

You mean a time when housing was affordable, council housing was ample, university education was free, Britain had a manufacturing base? It wasn't all a bed of roses of course but somewhat better than the social and economic regression 1979-present.
Come to think of it Ghost, you're right!

I fail to understand how many supposedly intelligent women can try and argue that the 1979 world is better than today in the UK. In 1981, 3.7 million households did not have an indoor bath or toilet.

I fail to understand how someone who can so easily sneer at others can fail to see that not having indoor baths and toilets really isn't the point here.

I fail to understand how many supposedly intelligent women can try and argue that the 1979 world is better than today in the UK. In 1981, 3.7 million households did not have an indoor bath or toilet.

Yes because then and now can be summed up by a bathroom.

Britain 2015;

• Food banks
• Student debt
• Millions priced out of property ownership
• Families in poverty
• homelessness
• No manufacturing base
• wage stagnation
• zero hour contracts
• vilification of the poor, sick and disabled.
• chronic shortage of social housing

1979? Britain resembles the 1890's.

It'll be front page of The Mail tomorrow -

COMRADE CORBYN THE BATH SNATCHER!
He'll be taking Your vanity unit too!