An interview with Julie Bindel

[FirestoneD]

www.radfemcollective.org/news/2015/8/29/an-interview-with-julie-bindel

It's a subculture. A raid is their idea of a party. The thing is, you can participate from a mobile, so they can be entirely normal appearing kids who have an exciting secret online identity and can take part in coordinated mischief. You can imagine the appeal.

Secret identities always used to be associated with people who helped others, not idiots who send armed police to people's houses.

These guys are anything but normal. They don't appear to be normal. And no, I can't imagine the appeal of setting out to harm others. Sorry.

I can see the appeal for a certain type of person, but it does seem very odd behaviour.

Maybe I'm naive, but would it help if we all clubbed together and bought them each a guitar and a copy of the RATM tab book? That might help them get their apparent anger out.

Meant to add:

"so they can be entirely normal appearing kids who have an exciting secret online identity and can take part in coordinated mischief. You can imagine the appeal."

It's a bit like knock-door-run for older kids.

What they usually organise is harassment, not mere mischief.

It's a bit like knock-door-run for older kids.

With the addition of feeling part of a globally coordinated movement with a 'subversive' ideology.

would it help if we all clubbed together and bought them each a guitar and a copy of the RATM tab book? That might help them get their apparent anger out.

This is the mistake people make. The ones who act like this aren't angry, offended, scared or defensive. They regard such feelings as immaturity and gain their sense of superiority for rising above such feelings and mocking those who fall short (or who they trip over).

It's why the insults towards them, or claims they are somehow inadequate never bite. It's like throwing primary school playground insults at sixth formers.

For people who are having trouble understanding the troll mindset, I offer you How I Infiltrated a Confederate Pride Facebook Group and Turned it Into LGBT Jews for Obama. It's clearly very unethical behaviour but I can see why he found it fun.

That's interesting. So, either they are feeling the normal conflicting emotions people feel in their teens and twenties, but are burying them, which isn't healthy. Or they genuinely don't feel like that and feel contemptuous of their peers who do, which is bordering on psychopathic behaviour.

It's indeed a common mindset that they're somehow superior if they don't feel affected by things people with empathy get upset over. Like, dead refugee children. That's just a great thing to bring up to upset feminist mothers.

A lot of people learn sociopathic behaviour and thinking on those "troll" sites.

Gosh Meph, you do hero worship these inadequates, don't you?

Why don't you go fawn over them on 8Chan rather than doing it here?

People like your heroes actually harm people. Real, actual people and then film it. A bit like ISIL terrorists do. Such larks!

And they do care when they get insults, love, hence the gore attacks. You don't do that kind of puerile stuff if you're not riled.

Frances Thanks for the link - it is wrong, but also wonderful

There was an article on (I think) Buzzfeed a while ago written by a chap who infiltrated an anti-Semitic group. Obviously, they posted some pretty awful stuff, but quite a few of the members told him in private that they didn't believe a word of it.

Oh, and also wrong, but I did once convince a right wing, religious fundie on Twitter that the reason there were so many European actors in Hollywood was because we were sending them there as EU propaganda to soften Americans up for the day we invaded.

Helen Mirren was the leader.

PlaysWellWithOthers

I can explain the motivations of the nazi party in great detail, as I studied them. I do not, however, hero worship them.

I have watched 8chan, Anonymous and SomethingAwful for some time and have read what they have said about themselves. I was attempting to provide insight.

I was honestly just trying to warn people. There's no need to be rude.

I'm not being rude. I can talk about the motives and plans of Hitler in great detail as well, just never in such glowing phrases. You might want to have a look at what you wrote if I've got the wrong idea from it. I certainly don't see that attraction of setting out to harm people, you might though?

Next time, we can all tell you that you sound like a primary school child, yes? And that won't be rude, no? Good good.

I HATE people who make lazy comparisons between feminism and nazism, because the two are incomparable

It's a minor point but feminism and nazism are not comparable; not incomparable.

Why are you comparing an oppressed group with an oppressive group Meph? Why do you think that is a comparison even worth making and mentioning on this thread?

It's a minor point but feminism and nazism are not comparable; not incomparable.

Nah, you can totally ascribe that meaning to it - 'lacking a basis for comparison; not having qualities or features that can be compared'

That is an interesting article in the OP. The bits I have heard and seen from Bindel are rather at odds with the reputation. This bit near the end of her piece caught my eye;

But the vast majority of women that spout that kind of nonsense [referring to Laurie Penny] are doing so because they are scared of the feminism that means they have to name men as the problem, because they know the punishment they will get if they do.

Do people believe this? What sort of punishment is she referring to? Ridicule, or something darker? I ask because one of the things about feminism that has always interested me is why more women don't support it explicitly.

You think women are scared of reprisals because of ridicule? Really? After all your time in FWR?

On a societal level there are lots of women who fear the disapproval of men and other women if they call men out as the problem. 'I'm not a feminist but...'

The reason for a question mark at the end of my sentence is because I was asking a question. That means I don't know, and am looking for people's responses. Is Bindel explicitly saying that women such as herself who speak out will be physically harmed?

Feminists in the media such as herself, Criado-Perez etc., seem to be mostly at risk of pretty vicious internet trolling. I was asking if this is the limit of it.

Vicious internet trolling isn't ridicule. The fact you equate the two shows your basic lack of understanding of women's fears and oppression. Despite contributing to FWR for years now.

It's not down to us to educate you.

It's also minimising what happens to women.

Well I tell you what, you ignore me then. And don't go claiming this 'us' bollocks. Just because you have a problem with me discussing the article, doesn't mean everyone does.

I don't have a problem with you discussing the article. I have a problem with you minimising women's experiences. I have a problem with you putting women's oppression down as being 'scared of ridicule'.