Chrissie Hyndes victim blaming SMH

[FayKorgasm]

guardian.com/society/2015/aug/30/chrissie-hyndes-rape-comments Link

I always liked her but not after this.

We can't really protect ourselves, no more than anyone can protect their house from being burgled.
If anyone really wants to commit the crime, they will probably find a way to do it. You may not be the victim of a rapist of occasion in search of vulnerable women at night. But you may be the victim, for example, of someone who gains your trust (even marries you) and then rapes you in your own home.
I am safety aware and know self defence and I'm in no illusion that I may not be able to prevent anyone from raping me if that's what they are set out to do. And that despite any "risky" behaviour, I will only be raped if there is a rapist around who is intent on doing it.

Yes what happened to her was horrific and not her fault but this victim responsibility thing is complete tosh.
Hopefully I will live long enough to see a time when victim blaming is met with the same bemusement as suggesting the world is flat. Putting any blame or responsibility or expectation of protecting themselves is wrong.

That would be a wonderful thing to see Fay. Tragic that we have to hope to see something so basic and simple though isn't it.

Lass, I took more exception to his "can you protect yourself? Absolutely!" statement, as countless MN posters have stated, rape risk comes from men you know at a higher rate than it comes from men you don't.

And he's stated elsewhere he's a "boy" so I'm not speculating with the "his" above.

Reading what Chrissie said made me feel so sad and like crying. How can she not get it? She's always been one of my rock goddesses - I thought her so fierce.

She has entered the list of people whose opinion I need never take seriously again

The response article by Holly Baxter says everything I want to say.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/being-sexually-assaulted-was-not-your-fault-chrissie-hynde--please-dont-tell-other-victims-it-was-theirs-10478880.html

The comments on that article render it almost pointless though.

I'm sorry. I hadn't read the comments. I foolishly expected better from readers of The Independent.

It's always better not to read the comments...yet I always do....

Insulting to Women and Men. What a fool she is.

Pretty damn hard to run in flip flops, birkenstocks and backless shoes. Would wearing them make me culpable?

NEVER read the comments*

( * a Life Lesson )

BTL is a bad place to be.

Imagine being that awful in real life that you feel the need to display it in public.

Nothing to do with the article, which is just sad, but surely there is a difference between victim blaming and teaching our daughters to be street-wise?

Nothing absolves a rapist from their guilt obviously, but aren't there things that we can do to lessen the risk to ourselves without going to the extreme of never going out at night for example, without blaming the victims? Like learning self-defense.

Yes, we can teach our children how to be safer, but can't guarantee that they will be safe.
In the same way that we can lock our houses and cars, but they may still be burgled. But many people in many places don't do it because they don't think there are burglars around.

Atenco - I get your point, but - and this is just my personal experience - I think women and girls are taught to be street-wise. I know I was. Don't travel alone late at night, don't drink too much, keep your keys in your hand etc. etc. Most people know about that. But rape and sexual assault still happen.

Learning self-defense is not a bad thing (although for a long time I was extremely resistant to the idea that it should be my duty to weaponise my own body just because some people might decide to try and violate it), but if your up against someone larger, heavier and stronger than you, or several people, then it doesn't get you very far. And then you'll inevitably get the "but you took a self-defense class - why didn't you defend yourself?"

Besides which, none of this addresses the fact that a large percent of rape and sexual assault happens at home. And that a large percent of rapists are friends, partners and acquaintances. Scource: rapecrisis.org.uk/mythsvsrealities.php. Being taught street smarts isn't the solution.

Yes, we can teach our children how to be safer, but can't guarantee that they will be safe

Lweji and ugly swan, may I just say that this is totally obvious. However if just 5% less women are raped, surely that is a benefit.

And I don't see why our freedoms should be curtailed. I have always come and gone as I please at whatever time of the day or night.

But I have also known girls who have been extremely naïve and who really could have done with being more street-wise.

Atenco, I understand what you mean and I agree - we should be teaching our children (girls and boys) basic personal safety skills and I think most people do that. But we should also teach them that these skills are not magic and that if they do, god forbid, get assaulted or raped, it is not their fault. Whether they've been following our advice or not, it doesn't matter, it's not their fault. And that telling someone who has been raped, "Well, why didn't you do [whatever it is I think I would have done]?" is a horribly cruel thing to do and not helpful in the least.

" However if just 5% less women are raped, surely that is a benefit."

Do you truly think that would be the outcome? Or would these rapists simply choose frailer victims? Or women walking down a quiet path from work where there is no alternative?

I'm not sure either that there would be a decrease in rapes simply by women being more alert or more capable of defending themselves.
It could actually make the rapes that occur more violent, for example.

Have you seen the poll on Loose Women? I fucking despair. Only 88% agree that it is never a woman's fault if she is raped. As if that's a question that should ever be asked.

Yonic, I hadn't considered that. You're right, of course, if you instruct a girl on how to 'avoid being raped' (however that works) the underlying message is: "Make sure he rapes someone else."

Good point Lweji.

If a fiat went out stating women shouldn't have more than four drinks, rapists would rape women with a lower % blood alcohol (and when drink has been had, it's often the rapist who has drunk more). If the fiat was "no skirts above the knee" or "no heels above 2in", rapists would rape women in longer skirts and flatter shoes.

You want to reduce rape, you need to focus on making it more and more unacceptable to commit; giving victims any responsibility for the assault on them does the opposite because the rapists can hide behind that - " I raped her because of HER, not because of me."

And this bullcrap about high heels - no matter how flat your shoes, odds are the bloke is in shoes that are at least as good as yours for running, because patriarchy. Even if you're dressed for the gym and he's in work brogues, he could still run. More likely, you are in ballet flats and he is in trainers.

Regardless, if you are an average woman and he is an average man - he can probably outrun you if it comes to it. So the advice is not just victim blaming, it's illogical and shit.

And if all women took to wearing running shoes on a night out? We'd be criticised for not having done sprint training three times a week for a speedy getaway,

I despair.

Quite.