Feminist Pub XX - may the summer rains wash the patriarchy down the plughole

[NoTechnologicalBreakdown]

Ooh ooh! Do I get to start it?

Wine and cake all round. And a celebratory burst on the patriarchy-blasting cannon!

Old pub here

@PassiveAgressive:

So true. At family Christmas dinner invitations, my mother always complains that I don't help the female relatives clear up - my response usually is that if the men cannot get off their behinds, then why should I?
(She is feminist-leaning in theory, but doesn't want to feel "like a bitch" as you put it.)

I sometimes feel women are their own worst enemy, why didn't every woman come and join you or organise the men into jobs helping the clean up with the immortal words "it won't do itself"

Probably because doing it themselves is easier than getting the men to help with it.
We should promote a more long-term, sustainable approach to the problem. Tell women that, once the men did it once, it will be easier to get them to do it next time, and it will save time, eventually.

Not sure it warrants its own thread, but science found that vaginal douching is associated with intimate partner violence. I would like to know why.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17659883

Maybe because feminists don't do it and also are less likely to stay in abusive relationships?

We should promote a more long-term, sustainable approach to the problem. Tell women that, once the men did it once, it will be easier to get them to do it next time, and it will save time, eventually.

exactly, the number of men i hear who say they do it badly then don't get asked again, that wouldn't cut it in my relationship, obv. he needs more basic training at a very patronising level "this is how you pick up a spoon, this is how you open the dishwasher door, see this basket the cutlery goes in there, you place the cutlery in the basket, now i know you can get cutlery in your mouth so the much bigger basket shouldn't be a problem should it? now you show me with the fork... oh very well done who is a clever boy then, now prove you can remember show me with a knife!"

I am very lucky to have a husband of 20 years aren't i :)

Can I come in for the first time, to be with some like-minded people ? I am so sick and tired of the same kind of conversations I seem to have the last days.
Me - Are you stressed out with Christmas preparations ?
Colleague 1 (male) - No, I am not, but my wife is frazzled ...

Me - How is your progress with Christmas preparations ?
Colleague 2 (male) - Oh, my wife does it all.

Me - I do this and dp does this ...
Colleague 3 (female) - You are lucky, I have to do it all.
Me - What ? What does your dh do ?
Colleague 3 (having worked with me long hours the day before) - Well, working.

Me - Are you all set with your Christmas cards ?
Colleague 4 (male) - My wife does it all ... I bought the stamps.

And so on ...

I wondered a lot why everyone seems to be stressed out in the run up for Christmas, as it should be a time for mulled wine and cookies, and listening to Christmas music, no I realise that not everyone is stressed out, only women seem to be.

I wondered a lot why everyone seems to be stressed out in the run up for Christmas, as it should be a time for mulled wine and cookies, and listening to Christmas music, no I realise that not everyone is stressed out, only women seem to be.

This is why I am in favour of women-only living arrangements. They should be an option for every woman, just to be able to see the opportunities.

In theory, women could just go on strike regarding the preparations for Christmas when they find their partner doesn't do his share of the work.

But it's Christmas, it is only once a year, and "will someone think of the children?"

So, providing the opportunity to celebrate Christmas for women (and children), while men who don't get off their behinds to do something are left to spend the day in a pub without anything special, could change things.

DP does the bulk of Christmas organising here since DS was born (we didn't do much before). He enjoys choosing presents for DS, decorating tree, wrapping presents. We try to share the fun stuff and the boring stuff.

We don't do Christmas cards as a rule, just for a few people who are too distant for us to see.

I really like the idea of "mirroring" male colleagues. Did this recently with a job I share with a male colleague.

I find the same, all the women I know are busy working AND organising Christmas. The men seem to just be working, with their wives organising Christmas. Not in my house. OK, I've bought the presents for the dcs, but he's done the tidying, decorating, and ALL cooking for the family for the past few weeks because I've been working hard.

Hello vioso

I've done very little about Christmas. I sent a case of wine to my DSis, coffee pods to my parents and I e bought DH a Fitbit and some slippers.

DH is in charge of everything else. I simply haven't had time. I'm really busy at work and he's been working away from home 4 days per week for the past 2 months. He finishes for Christmas tomorrow - I'm in the office all the way through to Christmas Eve.

I'll probably wrap most of the presents, but he'll be cooking the Christmas dinner. I can't imagine doing it all myself and working FT - especially as I'm doing the majority of running-around-after-children duty at the moment.

I've done nothing about Christmas and won't be doing anything . I hate it, have done since I was a teenager. It's not compulsory.

I come from a family where it is expected that the women do everything (very few women in my entire family work ft, but me working ft doesn't seem to get me off the hook) and have ILs who 100% think it's my job to do all cards etc. (MIL once slapped me because I forgot her anniversary.)

When I started moaning about it to DH, he said he hates the ridiculous cards/presents stuff so didn't want to do it. As a test of his veracity, I just stopped doing it, to see if he'd get cross with me (LTB), not do it (He's lazy but honest) or start doing it (had been leeching off me). Turns out he's lazy but honest. I decided it was the way to go, so now we do NO gifts to extended family and a max. of 10 cards.

Which leaves us with time and money to spend on ourselves! Result!

I really do think the number of people who buy gifts for cousins etc, and send about 100 cards is quite gross, actually. I'm much happier with a scaled down, less stressful time.

kickass She slapped you?? Do her for assault.

I don't send any cards - DH does all the cards for his family and the neighbours.

Some of his relatives (whom I don't know) send cards to Mr and Mrs DHfirstname DHsecondname. But I do not intend to acknowledge their existence.

I only do cards for relatives I don't see at Christmas, so I'm now down to one aunt to send a card to. Dh sends cards to any of his relatives that we don't see, he's got LOADS to send.

I don't care about his random family members addressing us as Mr and Mrs Dpname, they did that before we were married, but I have firmly corrected MY family who tried it.

never - it was a gentle 'playful' slap on the back of my hand! As I walked into the room she took my hand and gave it a little gentle slap, while telling me that I forgot her anniversary (which I didn't even know about). I told her it was DH's job to do cards for his family and she dropped the subject.

If she knew that we don't do cards except for closest family, she would probably faint. She counts how many cards she gets each year. I totally get why DH hates all that stuff.

Damn, kickass the things you learn on MN. You were expected to send anniversary cards to your in-laws?

I'm not a big Christmas person at all. And now DH is retired and I am still working and in a job where the end of the calendar year is hectic so if anything Christmassy gets done in our house, he does it. In fact, I just got home from work after a very tiring week; he's out to a Christmas party and I am into the wine, a big ole box of shortbread, MN, and some mindless TV. Noel, Noel

It was the wedding anniversary of DH's mum and step-dad, so not even his parents. We'd never sent a card before.

Every year she makes a really obvious 'thing' about getting us a card for our anniversary. I am convinced this is her PA way of making a point to me. She frequently behaves like this.

Anyway, we're 4,000 miles away. DH safely home from Texas and hopefully not going again next week. The tree is lit and the cat is snoring. That's pretty much everything I want for Christmas.

no I realise that not everyone is stressed out, only women seem to be

Not remotely my experience in a work context.Things which have been happily trundling on going nowhere assume a huge importance as 24/12 arrives. One of my male partners is heading for a breakdown.

Playwswell, lass was only listing her experience, no need to get all rude and snarky.

This made me laugh like a drain.

And you're right PAQ, Lass always listing her personal experience as gospel is no reason for anyone to be rude and snarky.

I apologise unreservedly.

I think most of the pressure of Christmas stems from capitalism/consumer culture. Buy lots of food, which you then have to prepare. Buy lots of presents, which you have to wrap and deliver. Buy cards which have to write and post. When you have children you have the added thing of making Christmas 'special' which seems to involve expensive experiences to visit Santa or tripa to the theatre/panto.

I'm only giving a card to my mum this year, not buying for many people. DH is sorting out his family. DS has seen Santa 3 times for free, which is good as he cried twice. I am taking on responsibility for shopping and cooking which is something DH normally does.

I wish I'd thought to start asking male colleagues if they were 'all ready for xmas'. Women have been asking me that and thinking I'm super organised when I said yes.

My office party was amazing. Lots of free wine and hardly any sexism

My workplace no longer has a holiday party. It seems to be a trend here in the US. In fact, there seem to be fewer Christmas parties of any kind these days at least among my circle of friends, which suits me fine. We do have plans to attend a Hogmanay party that a Scottish friend is giving; my brother has been asked to be first foot, being tall and dark haired: well some of it is still dark, anyway. That party should be fun, if we can manage to keep DH awake until the bells.

Are you invalidating lass's lived experience Plays well? That isn't nice.

By apologising? I hardly think so.

Although I missed you calling her out for doing the exact same on several other threads with no apology... or is it just me that's not nice?

Anyway, the pub is generally accepted by everyone not to be the place to fall out. So I'll leave you to cheerlead for Lass and move on.

I hate it when things get even mildly contentious in the pub. Peace and love, y'all.

seneca, why do you think US workplaces are moving away from christmas parties?