Drag queens banned from Pride event "because they may offend transgender people"

[CoteDAzur]

“The decision was taken by transgender individuals who were uncomfortable with having drag performances at the event. It was felt that it would make some of those who were transgender or questioning their gender uncomfortable."

So... Very male-looking transwomen making women uncomfortable in toilets and changing rooms everywhere is OK because their feelings can't be hurt, but crossdressers must be excluded from a Pride event because they might make trans people uncomfortable?

From London Evening Standard

Wish clothes were more neutral- though have always wondered why trans women in the public eye never want to wear jeans, mum boots, a fleece and a sensible handbag!

I suppose for the same reason I don't. It doesn't appeal to me.

I've never seen a drag act except Taylor Mac twice , once at The Edinburgh fringe and once in New York. He is a playwright really and his shows are political in nature. He can be very funny but doesn't tell jokes.

Beyond that I don't really get the appeal of drag as entertainment, but then plenty of other entertainments leave me cold too. I don't find drag queens offensive, I'm just not interested.

So far as the rugby club on a charity run and the like I really don't see that as offensive. The joke is meant to be on them , being how badly they fail to look like women.

I agree with flora (again)

Many drag acts I have seen are parodies of women, not just dressing in women's clothes.

Eddie izzard doesn't parody. Once when asked why he was wearing women's clothes he replied "these aren't women's clothes, they're mine, I bought them".

As a completely irrelevant aside, I once danced with Lilly savage in the basement of trinity college Dublin at a LBG event that I had helped organise. And I met senitor Norris.

Slightly off topic but sometimes judith butler is so clever she is stupid.

Of course there is a difference between women complying with femininity and men performing it.

(Even if you describe women complying with femininity as performative.)

Am so glad it's clarified in my mind the difference between

drag
panto dames
parodies of women (rugger buggers etc.)
men transgressing gender norms (Eddie Izzard, Boy George etc.)

Drag is usually parody of women, not men transgressing gender norms, isn't it?

I'm really not keen on pantomime dames either. But then I can't stand panto full stop.

Rugger bugger types dressing up as parodies of women I'm not at all keen on, rubbish wigs and fake titties don't make me guffaw. Men going out in dresses for a laugh no problem though.

Men transgressing gender norms I quite enjoy, it's interesting. I wonder how the activist trans community perceives people like Eddie Izzard.

"Drag is usually parody of women, not men transgressing gender norms, isn't it?"

For me, drag is about parodying the performative nature of femininity. And the idea of 'these are the tropes, and here I am taking them to the maximal degree, and that should make me The Most Womanly Woman - and yet I am still a man. IME drag is not about 'passing', in any way - it's an alternate state, and a sort of surreal/comic one. I find it interesting - I don't doubt that some drag performers, as many other entertainers do, use it as a platform for misogynist ideas, but I don't think that drag itself is offensive to women.

But actually, thinking this through - what drag is in my experience, which is ALL about the glitz and tropes, a lot of which is used as evidence for a desire to be female, I can see why the trans community finds it troublesome. Because of that statement, of 'look, here I am, in ALL the trappings, to a ridiculous degree... and here I am, still, a man, and isn't gender just a grand joke.'

Agree completely shashka. Very well put.

Sorry shaska.

I don't have much of an opinion on Drag or those who use it. It doesn't offend me, because it is often so parodic and farcical however someone like Bruce Jenner offends me for saying that woman = glamorous underwear shots.

I think if I were trans I would be FAR more offended by Jenner than by someone clearly taking the piss - he or she is trying to get taken seriously while Drag is the opposite of that.

And I refuse to take him/her seriously.

I agree in theory Shaska.

I jsut find that in practice, it usually is just misogynistic bollocks.

"I just find that in practice, it usually is just misogynistic bollocks."

Fair point. Why isn't the world more like my theories! -stamps foot and wails-

freeprideglasgow.wordpress.com/2015/07/22/free-pride-to-welcome-drag-performers/

Good.

They fucked up, they apologised, everyone moves on.

The sex class: woman is still parodied in a myriad unhelpful ways, but, as always, women's feelings are worth zip in the face of the feelings of men and TW. I know there are a large number of women who are starting to question why LGBT groups even bother having the L there at all.

Good outcome.

Yes it is good.

Why Is the statement going on about misogyny though? Shouldn't that be trans misogyny? Because the feelings of women, were never anything to do with the reason for the decision.

Or does the word misogyny now include the hatred trans women face, even though it's different in shape and form from the hatred women face?

Which will cause more problems for people trying to help women. And what about trans men, will this be used to "prove" that misandry is a "thing"?

More Fucking about with language to the detriment of women.

It's part of the move to stop distinguishing between women and transwomen to show acceptance of transwomen as women. There is apparently no need to separate misogyny from the discrimination or hatred experienced by MTTs unless of course we're talking about the extra oppression faced by transwomen. Based in the current direction of travel we will soon have two categories - women and the subcategory "cis women" who perpetuate misogyny (against MTTs) but do not suffer it.

Oh but how I hate that term.

cis women is a fabrication that must not be foisted on women without a fight, rhetorical, literary, socially and otherwise.

I find myself singing 2 songs, loudly and repetitively, almost aggressively, but fortunately in my head

I Am What I Am
I'm Every Woman

And growling at regular intervals!

Did we ever find out what "cis-drag" was? I'm still confuse over that (and also hate the term cis women - I know why it's there and understand it but it's really unnecessary, surely)

cis-drag... erm...born on the side of drag? Born with the alignment of drag identity with sexual assignment. Physical and mental sex being drag.

Well, if that doesn't explain it, I don't know what will

Wow, I hadn't picked up on the term cis- drag originally

It suggests that trans people are offended because they feel like it is transgendered women who are being parodied

When the hell are they going to realise that it's not all about them?

thumb the term 'cis-women' is non sensical

trans as in 'trans-gender' means across, like trans-Atlantic flight

'Trans' is also a term used in chemistry. I forget it's meaning, but it's opposite is cis (think acid and alkali)

So 'cis-woman' has no real meaning. It is a label given to us by trans-people. And it defines us purely by our position relative to trans-people

So, they can stick it up their arse AFAIC

So, they can stick it up their arse AFAIC

This x100

Yeah, I know the scientific uses of the terms cis, trans and para, even ortho. Trans means across, cis means on the same side. So you have, as we used to say, a chair shape bond (for trans) or a boat-shaped bond (for cis). Most useful in organic chemistry.

And Lazyloulou - nice try but no, I'm none the wiser!!

In a bid to understand (and I still don't) I googled cis-drag and found this lovely paragraph - anyone?

"Initially, the policy was also going to ban transsexual drag queens, on the grounds that it would be inappropriate to ask individual queens whether they identified as transgender or not. But then that policy offended the transgender drag queens, who complained, leading to a new policy where trans drag queens are welcome but wicked cis queens are banned (“Cisgender” means a person who identifies with their actual, physical sex)."

from here

So help me out here - are transgender drag queens MTF who dress as outrageous females? Or are they FTM who dress as outrageous females? Or do they dress as outrageous males? And then, are cis-drag queens males, who may or may not be gay/bi, who dress as outrageous females? ARE there any females who dress as outrageous males? Does that even count as drag?

All these questions...